Integrating Presence

Qi And Astrology | (8/31/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu)

For this month’s regular open-audience, open-discussion “Ask Us Anything” — continuing discussions about meditation and related topics — Denny presents the long standing Five Element system mostly in terms of astrology, Qi and the body — an expansion on his article Qi and the “Real” Organs — with me commenting along the way until the show ends prematurely due to unknown technicalities with live streaming services.

Denny amended the video solo to wrap up. My closing comments are tacked on in the audio only version.

Audio: Qi And Astrology | (8/31/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu)

The audio only version includes my post-show comments

Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)

Topics include:

Galileo, telescopes, Copernicus, Heliocentrism
Friends and associates (known and unknown) as well as public and private societies involved in the rise to popularity of certain historical figures
Differences and similarities with astrology and astronomy and religion’s influences
History is (re)written by the victors (usually with agenda)
Western astrology sometimes not in accord with actual positioning of space object
Chinese 12 deities or 12 zodiac system
How leap year factors into Denny’s building of a clock chip in experimental physics lab
Five Elements (/materials/ phases/ liveliness/ movements/ behaviors/ interactions/ etc) of water, metal, fire, wood, earth and their correspondence to Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn respectively
Using this system on the surface with next step maybe being verifying it in one’s own experience and eventually maybe even investigating how this system was discovered, assembled and propagated
The organs and elements’ relation to emotions
“Treasure Organs” and “Vessel Organs”
Various bodily/organ essences
Role of kidneys in marrow
The ambiguity in translating Chinese, for example the two relationships between elements translated three ways as 1) nourishes, suppresses 2) supports, opposes 3) generating interaction; overcoming interaction
Role and influence of teachers and how they teach such as from the book and from experience
Displaying of physical metals
Micro (and Macro) Cosmic Orbit; a famous chart displaying this and its possible origins
8 immortals
Synthesis of:
- Taoism (understanding how the Dantian is the treasure)
- Zen (difference of pain and suffering / sensation vs perception)
- Confucianism
Lü Dongbin
Dantian
Bodhidharma
External and internal Eastern alchemy
Daoyin
Energy; and deep meditation as tool to discover and know all this
How Denny learned Micro Cosmic Orbit
Relationships and translations of yin and yang and how this applies to the body
Organs and meridians as understood by function
Modern Western alchemy as mostly internal alchemy
Masculine and feminine distinctions as applied to many of these topics and beyond
Various past AUAs on Qi as well as Bodhidharma and Zen
Eastern medicine in context of Western medicine and where it may be going
Various definitions of Qi:
- maybe mystical
- (but mostly:)
  - air
  - breathing
  - rice
  - external substances brought into the body
  - no fire/lack of fire
  - circulation (between kidney/water, heart/fire and lung/metal
  - metabolic harmony (between kidney/water, Earth/spleen and liver/wood)

An Integrating Presence Meditation at Fat Cat Longevity Wednesday August 25, 2021

Join meditation 6:00-6:45pm tonight, Wednesday, August 25th at Fat Cat Longevity [https://facebook.com/freyflow] downstairs next to Peace Love Coffee at Mary’s House of Healing, on Main St in St Charles, MO.

Similar to past meditations, we plan to start with brief instructions along with a discussion before and after.

Our semi-formal meditation possibilities include — but are not limited to — a combination of:

concentrating/gathering/unifying the mind, breath and body
compassion and loving-kindness
(open) awareness
5 simple Qi breathing exercises
mindfulness [1) body 2) heart-mind: thoughts, emotions, moods, mind states 3) relationship to our experience]

Mary’s House of Healing
524 South Main Street
Downstairs at Fat Cat Longevity next to Peace Love Coffee…
St. Charles, MO 63301

July 28th 2021 — 6:00pm – 6:45pm

Doors open: 5:50pm — Doors close: 6:05pm

Cost: Fat Cat Longevity price packages, monthly membership or generosity inspired donation

South Main Street

Irregular Inquires — Questions For Investigating Energy

“There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for:
[i] the sake of the non-arising [anuppādāya] of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen.”
[ii] … the sake of the abandonment [pahānāya] of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen.”
[iii] … the sake of the arising [uppādāya] of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen.”
[iv] … the maintenance [ṭhitiyā], non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen.”
Traditional phrase for The Four Right Exertions (cattārimāni sammappadhānāni)

Disclaimer: investigate these questions at the potential risk of wasting: time, serenity, perhaps some sanity and even energy.

What is energy? How do you know?
Where and how do you experience energy?
What kinds, or types of energy are there?
Why is energy important?
Where does energy come from? Where does it go?
What brings energy, in what degrees, and how?
What drains, or dissipates energy, in what degrees, and how?
What (all) supports and does not support energy?
Are there energetic rhythms, patterns, systems, anomalies, cycles, environments/spaces? If so, what differences and similarities exist for each and between and amongst these?
What blocks and unblocks energy? How?
How does energy (un)naturally dissipate?
How is energy (un)naturally stored?
How do you give away energy and how do you receive energy from others? Why?
How and why are there seemingly positive, neutral, and negative energies?
How can energy be transmuted? Why? Transmuted from what to what and what can’t it be transmuted to? Why? When should and shouldn’t it be transmuted?
Are you craving energy, or craving to release energy? If so, how does this happen?

Click to access article-4-september-2021.pdf

Watch You Tube videos youtu.be/zYv_jjmdSRs and youtu.be/RvoIflpaU4Q for background information
5 hierarchical layers of dynamic energy for original human systems:
Radiation – emission fields (waves)
Vibration – vibration or resonance fields (magnetism)
Units – particle or cluster fields (atoms)
Holographic – grid or lattice fields, fluctuating
Crystalline – fixed fields
(All levels can be altered via code systems)
via https://toveje.dk/about/the-hal-project-articles

Inclusive Compassion Practice (as not to neglect the other Bhramaviharas, or Sublime Abidings)

Saying “all life is suffering” seems a gross misrepresentation of the First Noble Truth. Perhaps more helpfully, skillfully, wisely put: it is “the truth of suffering,” or even “all life contains suffering.” The words “suffering,” “stress” and even “unsatisfactoriness” don’t really seem totally and adequately translate “dukkha” either — “commonly explained as a derivation from Aryan terminology for an axle hole, referring to an axle hole which is not in the center and leads to a bumpy, uncomfortable ride.”

Another decent dukkha definiton is ‘made up of the prefix du and the root kha. Du means “bad” or “difficult”. Kha means “empty”‘ with one interpretation of this in the graphic below:

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by @integratingpresence

However, on an ultimate level, yes, until full awakening is realized, it seems all life is suffering — at least on the very subtle layers of craving/clinging to being/becoming and/or craving/clinging to non-being/non-becoming. Nearly all phenomena seem associated with this. For example, if getting up to walk to the bathroom, there’s craving to want to do bathroom stuff. If scratching, it’s likely there’s subtle craving to want to no longer be somebody with an itch. Crappy examples but perhaps enough to make the point.

These more subtle forms of dukkha are not so practical for purposes of everyday life though. More practical is acknowledging whatever suffering, stress, and/or unsatisfactoriness happens. And then how do we respond? Easy answer. With compassion. Compassion here mostly meaning simply to acknowledge, instead of not noticing or denial, with willingness to skillfully and wisely do what can be done for alleviation.

Insights And Takeaways From “Love As The Breath Of Life” — Online Retreat with Ajahn Sucitto and Willa Thaniya Reid

September 22, 2023 UPDATE: Retreat video now on YouTube:

The recent online Ajahn Sucitto and Willa Thaniya Reid retreat “Love as the Breath of Life” brought forth such a plethora of insight amidst (minor) domestic challenges such as establishing and maintaining one’s retreat space amidst everyday home life.

I liken much of the notes below to a game of telephone where one can seem to hear what one wants, often with copious misinterpretations. In light of this, please (also) listen directly to the retreat.

Sitting meditation posture:

Big emphasis on uprightness
Pelvis and hips stable
Tendons relaxed
Stomach drops to floor
Spinal discs of lower back stacked atop each other with slight arch
Slight pressing toward the chest from between the shoulder blades
Relaxing rope-like muscles of the neck from the skull down

Body, breath and mind:

When body relaxes the mind gets signaled to relax
Body/breath has sense of internal tissue intelligence — body knows itself internally
The breath channel(s) through the tissues extends beyond the physical
Noice longer, lighter, sustained stretches with(in) the body, tissues and breath
As energies bubble up from the depths mind can concoct stuff with them. Draw back into experience (with)in the body and breath through uprightness

The Citta:

The heart — where intentions come from
That which is moved and touched by knowing something, otherwise it is just awareness

(Perceptual meditation) techniques:

Like a Buddha surveying the karmic field
Being enveloped in a sphere of love
Hands supporting, holding a level skull allowing the rest of body to dangle then energy rising up like mist
Establishing upright axis of a spinal energy column while aware of the sky, one’s feet on the ground and spaciousness then there’s no place for projected negative energy to land
Horizontal axes along shoulders and pelvis/hips in addition to the axis of the energetic spine
Detaching from the inner and the outer by staying in the doorway between the two
Introduce blockage(s) to energy flowing area(s) and invite blocked area to join (as mentioned in https://integratingpresence.com/2021/01/11/addressing-energetic-blockages)
Using the Five Faculties — faith/conviction, energy, mindfulness, samadhi (unified, gathered, sustained focus, stable, stillness of mind) and wisdom — to check effectiveness of meditation

An insight during retreat:

Since it seems we’re always aware (of something) — to verify this just try to stop being aware for 60 seconds — we only seem to lose awareness because the connection (and/or common thread) from the first remembered moment of awareness is severed, broken, or lost. It seems (correct) reference points can help with the linking and continuity of awareness.

Characteristics of a good friend:

gives what is hard to give
does what is hard to do
endures what is hard to endure
reveals secrets to you
keeps your secrets
does not abandon you in misfortunes
when you are down and out, does not look down on you

Love as the Breath of Life – Online Zoom Retreat with Ajahn Sucitto and Willa Thaniya Reid

EDITED RETREAT DESCRIPTION:

In the Buddha’s Dhamma, the four expressions of the loving heart establish the atmosphere for our practice. Combined with the opening and enrichment of the body’s somatic presence, they clear negative patterns such as fear, guilt, self-criticism and resentment. In this retreat, the cultivation of breathing, devotion and wise reflection are offered to further this process.

The daily schedule will include sitting, walking and standing meditation, Dhamma teachings, chanting, and question & answer sessions.

This retreat is offered freely in the spirit of generosity. There is no fee to register. You will have the opportunity to offer Dana (donation) at the close of the retreat. Information will be provided.

Retreat Schedule for PDT and UK Time Zones

SATURDAY, JULY 10 – THURSDAY, JULY 15, 2021

6 – 7 am PDT | 2 – 3 pm UK — Chanting ~ Guided Meditation

8:30 – 11 am PDT | 4:30 – 7 pm UK — Instruction ~ Meditation

12 – 1 pm PDT | 8-9 pm UK — Meditation ~ Q&A

3 – 6 pm PDT | 11 pm – 2 am UK — Instruction ~ Meditation

8 – 9:30 pm PDT | 4 – 5:30 am UK — Dhamma Reflection ~ Meditation

Love as the Breath of Life - with Ajahn Sucitto and Willa Thaniya Reid image

Ajahn Sucitto has been a Buddhist monk in the Thai Forest tradition for 45 years. He trained under Ajahn Sumedho, the senior western disciple of Ajahn Chah, and is based in Cittaviveka Monastery in Chithurst, in southern England.

Willa Thaniya Reid has trained in the Ajahn Chah forest tradition both in lay practice and in monasteries in England, where she served as the senior nun at Cittaviveka. She lives in New Zealand with Elizabeth Day, where they have a center dedicated to sharing the Buddha’s teachings.

An Integrating Presence Meditation: Deeply Sensing Body Areas — July 28, 2021 At Fat Cat Longevity

This meditation (recorded live) aims to strengthen and deepen the 32 Parts of the Body portion of Body Contemplation in the Four Foundations of Mindfulness — not meant as a regular practice or substitute. My apologies for the air conditioning, dehumidifier and other background noises. Partial inspiration comes from this Four Foundations of Mindfulness visual:

Just as if there were a double-mouthed provision bag full of various kinds of grain such as hill paddy, paddy, green gram, cow-peas, sesamum, and husked rice, and a man with sound eyes, having opened that bag, were to take stock of the contents thus: “This is hill paddy, this is paddy, this is green gram, this is cow-pea, this is sesamum, this is husked rice.” Just so, monks, a monk reflects on this very body enveloped by the skin and full of manifold impurity, from the soles up, and from the top of the head-hairs down, thinking thus: “There are in this body hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidney, heart, liver, midriff, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, saliva, nasal mucus, synovial fluid, urine.”
The Foundations of Mindfulness
Satipatthana Sutta

Meditation Audio: Deeply Sensing Body Areas

Meditation Audio: Deeply Sensing Body Areas— Recorded Live on July 28, 2021 at Fat Cat Longevity

Mary’s House of Healing
524 South Main Street
Downstairs at Fat Cat Longevity next to Peace Love Coffee…
St. Charles, MO 6330

July 28th 2021 — 6:00pm – 6:45pm

Doors open: 5:50pm — Doors close: 6:05pm

Cost: Fat Cat Longevity price packages, monthly membership or generosity inspired donation

Materiality And Mentality | (7/27/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu And Guest Beth Upton)

Materiality and Mentality | (7/27/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu And Guest Beth Upton

For this month’s regular open-audience, open-discussion “Ask Us Anything LIVE” — continuing discussions about meditation and related topics — Denny and I chat with meditation teacher Beth Upton most significantly about the Dependent Origination link Nāmarūpa, or Materiality and Mentality, which, according to Wikipedia, is “used in Buddhism to refer to the constituents of a living being: nāma is typically considered to refer to the mental component of the person, while rūpa refers to the physical.”

Audio: Materiality and Mentality | (7/27/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu And Guest Beth Upton

Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)

We discuss:

Science and spirituality
Functions of mind without physical characteristics
How mind can create physicality
Causal relationships between Materiality and Mentality, including those continually keeping Materiality and Mentality together
Mind-born materiality
Material basis
Materiality in the six senses (five physical senses and mind)
Consciousness supporting materiality in the mind
Type of physicality located in the heart area responsible for mind consciousness to arise
How the power of Samadhi is a scientific tool to perceive consciousness
Directly perceiving the momentary arising and passing away particles making up the body
Mind arising and leaving a physical imprint in the brain and body
Samatha and Samadhi
Abhidhamma
Universal and non-universal mental qualities
Beth’s offer to teach leading scientists how to cultivate Samadhi in order to further scientific investigation and knowledge
Perception:
- Conditional nature of perception
- Progression, refinement and freeing of perception
- New perceptions
- Dangers
- Arising and passing nature
Dumbing down of society
The importance, differences and confusions of what is, and what isn’t samadhi and Vipassanā
Mindfulness of body via breathing, impermanence and four elements meditation
Vast and varying differences of individualized responses to Co-V
Challenges and rewards of lay life and monastic life
Details, analysis and commentary on various four element mediation methods including internal and external perceptions
How depth of meditation correlates of with subtleness of meditation object including examples ranging from course to subtle
Intersections of Dhamma promotion, ((Non-)American attitudes surrounding) money, and generosity
Beth’s physical practices
Real life vs virtual meditation teachers and when to seek one

Images For The Minds Of The Three Kinds Of People In The World

The three types of people in the world are likened to a person with a mind like an open sore, a person with a mind like lightning, and a person with a mind like diamond.

And who has a mind like an open sore? It’s someone who is irritable and bad-tempered. Even when lightly criticized they lose their temper, becoming annoyed, hostile, and hard-hearted, and they display annoyance, hate, and bitterness. They’re like a festering sore, which, when you hit it with a stick or a stone, discharges even more. In the same way, someone is irritable and bad-tempered. Even when lightly criticized they lose their temper, becoming annoyed, hostile, and hard-hearted, and they display annoyance, hate, and bitterness. This is called a person with a mind like an open sore.

And who has a mind like lightning? It’s someone who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. They’re like a person with keen eyes in the dark of the night, who sees by a flash of lightning. In the same way, someone truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. This is called a person with a mind like lightning.

And who has a mind like diamond? It’s someone who realizes the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life. And they live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements. It’s like a diamond, which can’t be cut by anything at all, not even a gem or a stone. In the same way, someone realizes the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life. … This is called a person with a mind like diamond.

Illustrated: The Buddha’s Five Themes For Addressing Unskillful Thoughts

In the Vitakkasaṇṭhāna Sutta — The Relaxation of Thoughts (MN 20) the Buddha provides five themes to attend to at the appropriate times for those intent on heightening the mind. With accompanying images, they are:

Small Peg Knocking Out Larger One (to attend to another theme)

There is the case where evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—arise in a monk while he is referring to and attending to a particular theme. He should attend to another theme, apart from that one, connected with what is skillful. When he is attending to this other theme, apart from that one, connected with what is skillful, then those evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as a dexterous carpenter or his apprentice would use a small peg to knock out, drive out, and pull out a large one; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—arise in a monk while he is referring to and attending to a particular theme, he should attend to another theme, apart from that one, connected with what is skillful. When he is attending to this other theme, apart from that one, connected with what is skillful, then those evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it.

Disgusted By Wearing Carcass (to know certain thoughts are unskillful, blameworthy, and resulting in stress)

If evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to this other theme, connected with what is skillful, he should scrutinize the drawbacks of those thoughts: ‘Really, these thoughts of mine are unskillful, these thoughts of mine are blameworthy, these thoughts of mine result in stress.’ As he is scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts, those evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as a young woman—or man—fond of adornment, would be horrified, humiliated, and disgusted if the carcass of a snake or a dog or a human being were hung from her neck; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to this other theme, connected with what is skillful, he should scrutinize the drawbacks of those thoughts: ‘Really, these thoughts of mine are unskillful, these thoughts of mine are blameworthy, these thoughts of mine result in stress.’ As he is scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts, those evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion, or delusion—are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it.

Looking Away (to pay no mind to unskillful thoughts)

If evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts, he should pay no mind and pay no attention to those thoughts. As he is paying no mind and paying no attention to them, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as a man with good eyes, not wanting to see forms that had come into range, would close his eyes or look away; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts, he should pay no mind and pay no attention to those thoughts. As he is paying no mind and paying no attention to them, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it.

From Running To Walking To Standing To Sitting To Lying Down (to relax thought fabrications)

If evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is paying no mind and paying no attention to those thoughts, he should attend to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts. As he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as the thought would occur to a man walking quickly, ‘Why am I walking quickly? Why don’t I walk slowly?’ So he walks slowly. The thought occurs to him, ‘Why am I walking slowly? Why don’t I stand?’ So he stands. The thought occurs to him, ‘Why am I standing? Why don’t I sit down?’ So he sits down. The thought occurs to him, ‘Why am I sitting? Why don’t I lie down?’ So he lies down. In this way, giving up the grosser posture, he takes up the more refined one. In the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is paying no mind and paying no attention to those thoughts, he should attend to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts. As he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it.

Clenching Teeth (to crush unskillful/evil mind with awareness)

“Just as a strong man, seizing a weaker man by the head or the throat or the shoulders, would beat him down, constrain and crush him . . .”

If evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, then—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he should beat down, constrain, and crush his mind with his awareness. As—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he is beating down, constraining, and crushing his mind with his awareness, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as a strong man, seizing a weaker man by the head or the throat or the shoulders, would beat him down, constrain, and crush him; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts—connected with desire, aversion or delusion—still arise in the monk while he is attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts, then—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he should beat down, constrain, and crush his mind with his awareness. As—with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth—he is beating down, constraining, and crushing his mind with his awareness, those evil, unskillful thoughts are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it.

Kind Boundaries

To be kind to those who are unkind in return only seems one-sided to the one ‘keeping score’. When reciprocity doesn’t come from people around you, but from the will of the Universe moving through a depiction of characters, you will come to realize how people’s behavior is more reflective of where they are in their journey and never a reflection of your intention or self-worth. While you certainly don’t have to be best friends or lovers with those who ‘take’ with nothing else to ‘give’, because you are serving the will of the Universe, you are always being celebrated by the loving intelligence of divinity for all that you do — even when received by people solely designed to reflect your progress out of the plight of unfairness and into the light of eternal faith.
7/4/2021 Matt Kahn newsletter

The following question recently put to me references the above quote:

A question for you, as stated today in Matt Kahn’s newsletter that you don’t have to be friends with those who are unkind to you, do you think it’s more of a reacting in the moment with kindness and then you are ok to choose not to hang out with them anymore? And then how do you handle this with family or people you are more obligated or even forced to see for some time until you can completely break the relationship? I understand fully those societal obligations can be broken but just curious on your take on repeat interactions with those who are unkind.
Question put to me

My (somewhat revised/edited) response:

Yes this is a little more tricky and complicated. Without knowing specifics, what comes to mind now for more general day to day interactions with those we are more obligated and/or forced to interact with: sometimes the kindest thing we can do for ourselves and others is establish and maintain as firm of boundaries for as long as necessary. And we can do so with kindness, compassion and limiting our time spent in these interactions. While this takes courage and bravery I also feel it’s even more helpful to express our feelings (if possible and without saying they are causing them) and clearly express these boundaries to the involved parties. How exactly this is done — and in what tone and manner — is the rub though.

For example, years ago I got to the point where I just told my mom that we had to take a break — no communications whatsoever except for emergencies for one week. I rarely saw her more upset after I did this and had never seen such benefits in our relationship afterwards. Obviously this is just an example not a suggestion.

We all start where we are. I love Matt Kahn’s teachings. While the effect is not often immediately noticeable, nor step-by-step practical, for me these teachings plant seeds and seem to revolutionize my views, perceptions and ways of being in the world.

And as far as “reacting in the moment with kindness and then you are ok to choose not to hang out with them anymore” I’d say it is even OK to choose not to hang out with someone no matter how you have been or have not been. And just because the choice is made not to hang out doesn’t mean one must keep being kind, or stop being kind to them, whether in their presence or not. I’ve found, eventually though, with a regular loving-kindness practice, loving-kindness is a natural state that arrises more and more without (much) effort once what is in its way starts to dissolve.

And while it is certainly OK, I don’t really see this in terms of equity like “OK, now since I’ve been kind to them I’m OK to stop hanging out with them.” Also, kindness is different from niceness. I feel niceness can range from the inverted “I really don’t want to interact much with you” to the authentic icing on the cake of kindness.