On April Fools Day I did an Insight Timer live talk with the above title and the description, “A brief chat about associating with the wise while setting aside fools (and that which comes with it)”
a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person
dictionary definition for “fool”
Some notes for this talk:
- Expanded my definition of “fool” to include those engaging in deceit — defined as ‘the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth’ — in order to fool another
- (comicbook) writer Warren Ellis once said something like the internet on 4/1 April Fools Day was amateur hour
- just fun and games right?
- 2007 Google April Fools gag of paper print out (actual of Gmail not the entire internet as I said)
“Please don’t associate with fools. Please only associate with the wise.”
from the Maṅgala Sutta
“Sakka, the lord of all the world, has offered me a boon.
May I not see or hear a fool, nor no such dwell with me,
Nor hold no converse with a fool, nor like his company.”“What has a fool e’er done to you, O Kassapa, declare!
Come tell me why fools’ company is more than you can bear?”“The fool does wickedly, binds loads on him that none should bear,
Ill-doing is his good, and he is wroth when spoken fair,
Knows not right conduct; this is why I would have no fool there.”“Fair spoken, Kassapa,” etc.
“Sakka, the lord of beings all, has offered me a boon.
Be it mine the wise to see and hear, and may he dwell with me,
May I hold converse with the wise, and love his company.”“What has the wise man done to you, O Kassapa, declare!
Why do you wish that where you are, the wise man should be there?The wise does well, no burden binds on him that none should bear,
selection from: Jataka 480: Akitta-jātaka — The birth story of Akitti
Well-doing is his good, nor is he wroth when spoken fair,
Knows well right conduct; this is why ’tis well he should be there.”
“Who knows, knows who knows. Who knows knows who doesn’t know. Who doesn’t know doesn’t know who doesn’t know. Who doesn’t know doesn’t know who knows.”
Theragatha Stanza 61 – Saying of the Elder Vappa
- Why wisdom and the wise? (I read from p. 144 of Expectation Derived From One’s Own Point Of View)
- Challenging for me
- Voted most gullible in high school
- Maybe unconsciously seeing school pursuits as foolish and so wanted to outdo them in a more foolish way. This is obviously not wise; better to bring whatever wisdom to one’s current state
- Would have liked for someone directly to call me a fool back then
- Story about my Grandpa’s dog(s) named Buster
- In my defense we live in a culture of deceit
- A lie to save a life — slippery slope for all manner of unwise justification for deceit
“Let no one deceive another or despise anyone in any state”
A line from the Metta Sutta
Some of my experiences on what happens when making firm resolve to associate with the wise:
- doesn’t mean zero humor
- transition period of discarding fools and picking up the wise
- we let go; also sometime what one is trying to let go of can eventually let go of you
He that walketh with the wise shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be afflicted.
Proverbs 13:20 Geneva translation
7 Escape quickly from the company of fools; they’re a waste of your time, a waste of your words. 8 The wisdom of the wise keeps life on track; the foolishness of fools lands them in the ditch. 9 The stupid ridicule right and wrong, but a moral life is a favored life. 10 The person who shuns the bitter moments of friends will be an outsider at their celebrations. 11 Lives of careless wrongdoing are tumbledown shacks; holy living builds soaring cathedrals. 12 There’s a way of life that looks harmless enough; look again – it leads straight to hell. 13 Sure, those people appear to be having a good time, but all that laughter will end in heartbreak. Sift and Weigh Every Word 14 A mean person gets paid back in meanness, a gracious person in grace. 15 The gullible believe anything they’re told; the prudent sift and weigh every word. 16 The wise watch their steps and avoid evil; fools are headstrong and reckless. 17 The hotheaded do things they’ll later regret; the coldhearted get the cold shoulder.
Proverbs 14:7-17 -MSG Translation
7 Go thou against a man a fool; and he shall not know the lips of prudence. (Go thou away from a foolish person; for he shall not speak words of understanding, that is, sensible words.)
8 The wisdom of a fell man is to understand his way; and the unwariness of fools erreth. (The wisdom of a clever person is to understand his own way; but the carelessness of fools maketh them to err.)
9 A fool scorneth sin; grace shall dwell among just men. (A fool mocketh sin; favour shall dwell among the righteous.)
10 The heart that knoweth the bitterness of his soul; a stranger shall not be meddled in the joy thereof. (The heart knoweth the bitterness of its own soul; a stranger cannot be mixed in, or mingled, with its joy.)
11 The house of wicked men shall be done away; the tabernacles of just men shall burgeon. (The houses of the wicked shall be done away; but the homes of the righteous shall flourish.)
12 Soothly a way is, that seemeth just to a man (Truly there is a way, that seemeth right to a person); but the last things thereof lead forth to death.
13 Laughing shall be meddled with sorrow (Laughter shall be mixed, or mingled, with sorrow); and mourning occupieth the last things of joy.
14 A fool shall be filled with his ways; and a good man shall be above him. (A fool shall reap the fruit of his foolish ways; and a good person that of his deeds, or of his labour.)
15 An innocent man believeth to each word; a fell man beholdeth his goings. (An innocent person believeth each and every word; a clever person regardeth, or watcheth, his own steps.)
16 A wise man dreadeth, and boweth away from evil; a fool skippeth over, and trusteth.
17 A man unpatient shall work folly; and a guileful man is odious. (An impatient person will act foolishly; and a deceitful person is odious.)
T’he very relevant 1 Corinthians 15:33 was brought to my attention after publishing:
Do not be misled: Bad companionships corrupt beneficial ethics. Malicious associations deteriorate beneficial ethical customs.
Literal Emphasis Translation of 1 Corinthians 15:33
Audio: Don’t Associate With Fools
Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
wholeness welcome this is josh dipple
integrating presence and today i’m on
wisdom app and on insight timer and the
title is called don’t associate with
fools and on wisdom app i’m calling it
veto fools and the description i have
here is a brief chat associating with
the wise while setting aside fools
and that which comes with it so i’ll
kind of get into you know
why this is
what ex inspired this
and then some personal experience
and then what happens when really making
a firm resolve to associate with the
wise so just to do a definition here of
a fool
is a person who acts unwisely or
imprudently a silly person
it’s one of the
dictionary definitions for it but i’m
also going to include here those who
engage in deceit in order to fool
another and by deceit the definition is
the action or practice of deceiving
someone by concealing or misrepresenting
the truth
years ago
when i worked in the online world i
followed
some of this april fool’s culture and
warren ellis a comic book writer called
being on the internet today like amateur
hour and so you know what is the big
deal this is all just fun and games
right april fool’s day you know what’s
the harm in it no harm just people
having jokes you know haha big deal
right well i don’t know i remember one
time google you know even the huge
companies get in on culture of fooling
people and being foolish or trying to
deceive people and then making trying to
make one look clever and smart by
fooling another i don’t really get it i
mean one year google had this thing
where they were gonna print out the
entire internet on paper which would
you know it seems kind of funny and
maybe it is but what happens if the
internet goes down it doesn’t actually
seem like a bad idea if that was
happening maybe i don’t know
so what inspired this is from the
mangala suta the
historical buddha says in this discourse
he says please don’t associate with
fools please only associate with the
wise and then before he was said to gain
full enlightenment when he was still an
unenlightened bodhisattva and the jataka
480
the birth story of a kitty he makes this
firm resolve and quote may i not meet
with a fool may i not hear from a fool
may i not associate with a fool if i
need to converse with the fool may i not
take delight in this speech and may i
not follow and act according to his
speech
the other day or actually was last night
i was kind of looking through some book
dharma books to donate and i just
happened to come across this passage
here on fools so it kind of did my work
for me i didn’t have to go to the
internet and i came across this saying
of the elder
vapa and the taragata stands as 61 about
knowledge and knowing so who knows
knows who knows who knows
knows who doesn’t know who doesn’t know
doesn’t know
who doesn’t know who doesn’t know
doesn’t know
who knows so that this is kind of
profound wisdom
of knowledge and not knowing
so you know why wisdom in the wise you
know what’s the big deal why not what’s
the big deal hanging around with fools
why do you want to hang around the wise
hopefully this seems completely obvious
to people that they
will
immediately see the value in this
and this needs not further explanation
i’m just going to read a really brief
paragraph
out of expectation derived from one’s
point of view this book here
that speaks to this
sometimes we are not ready to listen to
the wise this is something that happens
with all of us in life often we meet
with fools we speak with them and we
enjoy speaking with them sometimes we
meet with the wise but we feel doubt we
look at the wise with strange eyes we
think my point of view and his point of
view are not the same
what is he saying rooted in your ego you
want to deny you want to disagree you
want to object you want to oppose hence
we all need to be careful we all need to
be wise we all need to make an
aspiration like the one the bodhisattva
made in one of his existences so i don’t
know i mean that really doesn’t really
drive it home for me
so i’ll just talk about kind of my
personal experience this was mostly in
high school though you know so this is
kind of excusable
it was challenging for me i was voted
actually the most gullible in high
school and so in my defense i would say
though not that i really need to defend
but to speak to that it’s like why would
anyone want to set out to deceive
someone to make them gullible um a quick
aside i just heard somebody coming in
the building here
saying
knocking on the door saying housekeeping
like a joke right you know in a way it’s
kind of funny but just uh even though
the person probably even know that they
were just messing around it’s still tr
it’s based on okay will i deceive this
person or not will they buy into my
silly deception and so it just seems
like what’s the point but back in high
school voted the most gullible and maybe
on an unconscious level
i was seeing all the activity around me
and actually seeing it as foolish
and then seeing this level of
competition
to do these things that seem foolish so
what was i going to do i was going to
one-up that and just be even more
foolish kind of outlandish
and
act even more foolish that you know all
these
silly suits that people were doing in
high school that a lot of the especially
the academic stuff really hardly anyone
really wanted to be doing it you know it
was just kind of a stepping stone for
some kind of potential in the future
which a lot of that probably didn’t pan
out the way people wanted to either and
there really wasn’t really a keen
desire interest to be
engaging with what was one was engaging
with if there was even kind of a
it was just the amount
necessary to get by there really wasn’t
any kind of enthusiasm with it a lot of
the times now i can’t make a general
sleeping statement because i did have
some really cool teachers a couple of
really cool teachers i really resonated
with but i would say for the most part
it was just seeing more foolishness but
then you know that’s not the wise
response though because i would have
loved with my knowledge and wisdom now
to have somebody call me out directly
and say hey josh
you’re acting like a fool quit being
foolish this isn’t doing anybody any
good but you know at the time i don’t
know if it would have done any good
anyway because i didn’t really have the
wisdom to see that that was wise right
and then a really brief story my
grandfather though he had this dog
called buster and it was a rat terrier
actually he had several of these rat
terriers but he all named them buster
one would pass away he would get another
one that looked almost exactly the same
and call it buster again and he had it
on this huge line outside in the country
it had this room to just run
run run run maybe a hundred yards or so
or it seemed like that when i was a kid
and then back and forth sometimes when i
would visit this dog buster would run or
whatever buster version it was would run
back and forth just at full speed and my
grandfather and then barking at the
entire time and my grandfather would
just yell at him fool
fool
fool
and i just thought that was so amusing
i’m not going to go into any
interpretation you can interpret that
how you want again in my defense with
this we do live in a culture of deceit
somewhat people will lie and deceive to
get what they want to get ahead
and it doesn’t really matter if it’s how
big the lie is or how small to a lot of
people as well
it’s enforced in media and culture
to deceive another in order to get ahead
it makes one look i don’t know like
they’re some smarter or more capable
somehow
if they’re deceiving someone
and there is this one exception right
someone might need to tell a lie in
order to save a life we hear this as an
acceptable exception to the seat however
at the same time yes i can see that in
certain instances it would have to be
case-by-case basis
but this is a slippery slope in general
i feel because it kind of gives way to
all manner of unwise justification for
deceit oh you know i did this in order
to
so and so you know probably wouldn’t
have liked to do that but that was
it was a for a greater good well the
greater good of who right at the expense
of what other goods and the metasuta are
the suton loving kindness where the
buddhist says let none deceive another
or despise anyone in any state so this
really resonates with me let none
deceive another the way it’s interpreted
there
i wonder if this means okay are we going
to step aside and let others deceive
others or it says let none deceive
another at what length should we go
to stop deception i don’t really have a
good answer to that but if it’s
interpreted that way let none deceive
another what can i do
to stop deception and do it skillfully
wisely kindly as well
what happens when we make a firm resolve
to
associate with the wise and set aside
fools
for me it doesn’t mean no humor right
there’s still going to be humor we don’t
have to try to fool people in order to
be funny or be
deceptive even if they know we’re
kidding that’s another i still do that
every once in a while right but there’s
still going to be humor
for me there was this transition period
where
when i really saw the value of
associating with wise people and setting
aside foolish people it was a transition
period where there was i lost friends
but i made other ones too eventually
made wise friends and so it was kind of
lonely at a time but it also freed up a
lot of time to do a lot of study and
practice too
it’s all about letting go right we let
go let go let go let go of some foolish
people in foolishness but at a certain
point there’s only so much we can let go
of it just keeps coming back whenever
what we’re trying to let go of will
eventually let go of us right that’s the
kind of 180 way of looking at it
sometimes we’re trying to let go of we
don’t really have any more
effort or power to do so when the time’s
right whatever we’re trying to let go of
we’ll actually let go of us
in a manner of speaking
when i was searching out for this stuff
too
i also came across some bible verses
which i don’t normally do even though i
was
raised in a loosely christian tradition
but i found these interesting so this is
proverbs 13 20
and this is a geneva bible
translation there’s a few english
translations that came before the king
james and those are interesting since
the modern translations from what i
understand tend to play off the king
james translation but he that walketh
with the wise shall be wise but a
companion of fools shall be afflicted in
one way that’s yes that’s good wisdom
but it seems to be almost framed in
do this or else kind of thing and that
kind of turns me off a little bit i
don’t have any more time here but i was
going to read something from the
wycliffe bible and that was a pre-kings
james translation and just show how how
much the language has changed english
language has kind of been degraded but
i’m just going to read proverbs 14 7
through 17 real quick from
msg and i hadn’t heard of this one it’s
a modern translation escape quickly from
the company of fools
they’re a waste of your time a waste of
your words the wisdom of the wise keeps
life on track the foolishness of fools
lands them in the ditch
the stupid ridicule right and wrong but
a moral life is a favored life the
person who shuns the bitter moments of
friends will be an outsider at their
celebration
lives of careless wrongdoing are tumbled
down shacks
holy living builds soaring cathedrals
there’s a way of life that looks
harmless enough look again it leads
straight to hell i’m sorry it’s um okay
so 13 sure these those people appear to
be having a good time but all that
laughter will end in heartbreak sift and
weigh every word a mean person gets paid
back in meanness a gracious person and
grace the gullible believe anything
they’re told the prudent sift and weigh
every word the wise watch their steps
and avoid evil fools or headstrong and
reckless the hot-headed do things a
later regret the cold-hearted get the
cold shoulder so i don’t have time to go
through here and analyze and pick out
what
i might have talking points on
criticisms and praise but there it is
may you all be blessed with ideal and
optimal wisdom
may you know
and associate with the wise
and may you
set aside fools in foolishness for your
benefit for our benefit for the benefit
of all beings everywhere
Integrating Presence 
6 thoughts on “Don’t Associate With Fools”