This is the sixth installment of the ongoing live series with Wendy Nash inquiring into meditation practice on and off the cushion. Due to no Q & A in January we did two in February. And since February is often associated with love and Valentines day we did one on Love & Brahmaviharas and for this one we dove into heart based (meditative) practices by asking and answering questions of each others’ practices along with touching on inheritance, challenges, capacity, depth, giving, emotions, family, etc.
Join these Q & A’s when they happen live:
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- scroll through the events at https://insighttimer.com/live around start time
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- watch on my YouTube channel
*There’s naturally an ongoing open call for meditation (related) questions for the (roughly) monthly “Meditation Q & A” either by the various social media means listed; integratingpresence[at]protonmail.com or just showing up on Insight Timer live or Wisdom App to type/ask live.*
Background
Regular, current and past visitors to Integrating Presence may recall the monthly series “Ask Us Anything” I did with Denny K Miu from August 2020 until January 2022 — partially including and continuing on with Lydia Grace as co-host for awhile until March 2022.
For a few months thereafter I did various Insight Timer live events exploring potential new directions and/or a continuation of the Ask Us Anything format while weaving in other related teachings to these events.
Then, after chats with meditation coach Wendy Nash, it became clear to start a new collaboration similar to “Ask Us Anything” simply and clearly called “Meditation Q & A” especially due to the original intent of the Ask Us Anything’s being “discussions about meditation and related topics.”
Audio: Heart Practices | Feb 23, 2023 “Meditation Q & A With Wendy Nash” #06
Past chats with Wendy:
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
and today again once again the lovely Wendy Nash with me back again for our meditation q a this is the number six
Wendy what’s going on how are you yeah I’m good I’m good I’m writing all
about my favorite topic just before we came on I was writing all about my
favorite topic which is about active travel how to think about our cities in
our urban areas in a way that doesn’t involve a car and since our q a today is
meditation on love different what do we do you and me what do we do in our things actually you know engaged
engaged Buddhism as um calls it is
is part of the practice because I I get these documents from the council and I’m
like no that’s all I have to think about love so
there we are you I I would really love to see the the the
um other insight timer and also oh yes YouTube so if you put them in the link
then I’ll be able to see that yeah if there are any questions I’m going to put the link to the insight
timer so Wendy can take a look at that and um if in my YouTube channel is
youtube.com at integratingpresence I’m gonna put that in link
uh so it’s just you and me I think now there’s one person we have at the moment all right exciting
so so I apologize we’re running just a little bit behind I I was uh so last
time we talked mostly about um the Brahma vihar practices right we
went into detail about those and um spent a little time on loving
kindness who read the methusuta to also talked a little about uh forgiveness um I wanted to do since I’ve I’m calling
this I think I’m calling this uh love um heart practices so I just wanted to
give a little rundown of all the ones that came to mind I had a little bitty download and I wrote These down
um so you know and we also talked about gratitude so we’ve it so we’ve got the
Brahma viharas which are loving kindness um compassion rejoicing and Equanimity and then we
talked about gratitude forgiveness one that also comes up came up for me
was this I’m this is not around my alley so much up my alley so much is devotion practice so this dedication and Devotion
to someone or something and I think it comes in with faith too Faith practices
not the same as belief but this isn’t we can be inspired by faith inspired by
something we can have a bright Faith see how it can benefit us and help us and then we can have a verified Faith where
we can actually verify the benefit of this for ourselves empathy is an interesting one too I
think it’s called APA MATA in in Pali um being empathic you know feeling what
another feels um another thing is uh Chanda this is a um
a desire but like a healthy uh enthusiasm an aspiration I guess uh
desire towards things that are wholesome and spiritual practice so we can usually we might have a sense sense desires
right but we can actually have a wholesome desire for things that are going to benefit us and others
uh Sam Vega this is this poly word that means like a spiritual urgency like it’s
like this moment of waking up oh crap I gotta do this I mean it’s very urgent for me to do this can almost be like a
life-saving thing with my when my ass got kicked into gear when I hit rock bottom right and I realized oh [ __ ] I’ve
wasted so much time and uh I just waking up to how important this
really is generosity I know Wendy and I were talking a little bit before the last show about maybe how we could bring
generosity when we’re talking about certain relationships and maybe we’ll talk a little bit about all the different ideas we’ve thrown around
trying to plan for this this show but um another one is not relaxation it
doesn’t really think of a heart practice but for some people I have to really sit there and uh you know some people really
need to unwind and it’s it’s almost like an act of self-care and self-kindness vulnerability
um it’s it’s so this is how the heart opens and we talk a little bit about armoring
last time and how we think not being vulnerable will protect us maybe sometimes it does but it’s hard to
connect when our heart is so shielded and um hardened and about opening up and and
being vulnerable from time to time acceptance um but this is also to be balanced with
assertiveness forthrightness diligence and you know ardency but the the passive side of this is acceptance other than uh
abusive relationships right that’s that’s not that’s nothing to accept and just a few more here encouragement
and empowerment uh I think those are also you know they’re kind of more minor
and not traditional things but encouraging one another empowering one another uh safety though we talk a
little bit about safety last time and uh maybe we’ll go into this when we talk more about Brahma viharas but I think
this is hugely important and healing you know whatever that might mean to you me
us healing and letting go to it’s more of a wisdom based practice but I think
there’s a heart element in letting go as well but I think today Wendy and I try
to keep true to the name of this show we’re going to kind of ask each other some questions about our our own
practice then we’ll maybe ask you guys about your practices as well
um some questions about your heart practices and feel free to ask us questions that’s what we we usually
invite folks to ask questions about their meditation practice or anything somewhat related or whatnot but to maybe
get more engagement we’re going to ask try to ask some questions of the audience too as well of each other so I
threw a lot out there Wendy would you is anything coming to mind do you like to point uh pick up on well first up I
guess you know this is to me about love care respect
a practice so I’m in Australia and the Aboriginal people have been first
Nations people have been living here for I heard a figure the other day and it was between 55 and 65 000 years so
that’s now it came from uh it’s one country so what what is now popular New
Guinea which is a bit to the North in Tasmania which is part of Australia but is a separate Island to the South
um all that is called suhul and so people came down through there and in the space
of 10 000 years they covered they populated the whole country the
whole land um in like millions and millions of people
so I think it’s really important to acknowledge the country that I’m calling from and I’m calling from guppy guppy
country and to I guess I think it’s really important to
recognize that that these they are people who have
shown a lot of love care and respect and veneration and devotion all those
things that you described in your opening it you know communities
keeping it together now it wasn’t all sweetened light there was a lot of stuff gone that went on down so let’s
not be you know noble savage idealization kind of thing
um but I think it is really important to recognize that
that we are on on Stolen country and that that recognition kind of being
um the recipient of stolen property that you can’t give back and what can I do to
show care for the people whose lives have been very seriously impacted by
that Injustice that crime that violence and so that’s that’s why I like to say I
am a gummy guppy country it is a it is a kind of loving-kindness practice so
that’s one of them one of the loving kindness practices that I do yeah but also just a heads up for people
who aren’t familiar with the term Brahma baharas there is another term near measurables which
I find easier to understand than the Divine abodes or yeah it doesn’t mean
anything to me Brahma baharas I’m not a Brahman and I don’t live in a vahara
which is a
we mentioned this last time and I like Sublime abidings you know like what are we living in are we living
in a squalor of the mind and heart or are we living in a bright and radiant heart or maybe we aspire to live in a
nice neighborhood of our minds and hearts you know it’s like and the whole term with this from what I understand
it’s the Buddha it’s like you know a lot of religions there’s so much good to them it’s always like the next life you
know getting there the next time the next time but here and now you can abide in this the the goodness of all those
lovely Heavenly States it’s present here and now it doesn’t have to wait until some other time or some other place
right we have this opportunity to um live uh in these beautiful and
immeasurable I like that because there is no limit you know it’s not like oh I’m gonna steal a little bit of your kindness here not enough for you anymore
it’s not it’s not based on scarcity right there’s no limit to it so yes it’s it’s and then um the native
practices as well you know currently I’m in Denmark so this is a good reminder to me to learn more history about the
native people here but in the states I know I can definitely recognize with that in in the in Missouri it’s there’s
the Trail of Tears so literally March the native people off the land of
Missouri through a Trail of Tears where so many died to put in reservations I’m not sure that the term that’s that’s
most used now uh where you know so they wanted them out of certain areas and in
other areas and there was just exactly there’s so much kind of
um lack of recognition just the the simple recognition that Wendy gives as
well that it’s not all um you know dominated by Europeans and kind of covered up and you know sanitized with
all the Bloodshed and the wars that were going on to move um Native Americans out of certain areas
and into other area because so many different reasons that I’m not really upon exactly you know how it all went
down but I mean there’s there’s kind of still a sense of sadness on the land
around that and for the very released I encourage uh anytime we can acknowledge
that in the right ways too and without being overly um worried about if I’m doing it right
or not it’s just like tune into my own heart and how it feels for me and what’s really helpful with that you know
without causing any more harm right so the whole point is to do less harm than
was done in the past right we clean up leave a place better than I found it yeah you know yeah so um first up I just
wanted to ask we have 16 meditators here okay and um if any one of our 16 guests
um would like to put in a comment we will answer it you can say that you know I might I love my cat that’s fine that’s
a form of meditation it’s just nice to kind of see who’s here yes and and there
was something there that you said uh what was your final sentence there I can’t remember oh leaving a place better
than we’ve found it ah yeah okay so I was in I was in a house
and I was raised always leave it better than when you found it but at some level
actually that is saying that what is here is a bit rubbish and I can do
better than what is here so you have to be careful that you don’t you’re not insulting someone and you’re not saying
well you’re a slob or a you don’t know how to keep house or whatever it is so I
think I I learned the lesson that that is a kind of form of superiority in a way
yeah it this is a really important Point Wendy and uh it can definitely get into that really easily and so this is
another practice I’m just looking at the point of if I go to a campsite or go outside in the states here in Denmark’s
a lot cleaner but there there’s there if there’s trash and of course I’m an eagle scout right so lots of distortions and
things and that but a lot of good too so if I’m going to a place or um then I want to when I leave the place
at least I want to keep it cleaner than I found it so we’ll just go with this example right so if I go into a space
that I’m going to be living at a little bit then I probably want to clean up the trash that’s been there however how do I
do it so I notice within myself when I start picking up pieces of other people’s trash where I’m living or where
I lived then I can get really self-righteous and judgmental and blaming okay now it doesn’t make it
glittering right but and at the same time okay well what am I perceiving
about other people I don’t even know what how that out there it could have blown out of the trash can from when the
trash people were taken away imagine if we didn’t have trash people and we had all this stuff had to build up what if
somebody’s having a horrible day they’re going through um horrible life circumstances and then
just happens to just not be mindful of when they’re doing or you know
um or you know just this it just blows out of the car it could be a million things it could also be somebody that’s
really kind of crappy and say I’m better I mean I don’t care I’m just gonna throw it
here who gives a care I don’t you know Screw at somebody else’s job well then I think I think I think we’re off track I
think we’re off track so we said we’re not gonna get sidetracked we were absolutely gonna go on yeah
yes so how okay so I think the cat comment is really good sorry about that so how do you guys show kindness in your
life to yourselves and others and this can include cats I know the very first practice and I wanna we’re gonna get
into the Tibetan practices and versions of this because I want to be educated too I know very little about the ha the
beautiful Tibetan Traditions out there um I know one of the classic ways to do bravojara’s I mean loving-kindness is
starting off with someone where it’s really easy to show love and kindness and it’s because our relationships are
so complicated a lot of times so emotionally charged uh it’s easy to pick somewhere where
there’s not a lot of emotional complications and one of that is with the pet right with the pet because
they’re just there to show love and receive love and get love so that’s where it’s a lot of times people can
really connect with an authentic sense of kindness in their hearts uh with it with their pet so I want to ask uh Wendy
and then other people listening into how do you connect um like who would you connect that you
feel safe was sharing um that were things um just flow naturally this this
friendliness this kindness this well-wishing this goodness I would say my niece and nephew for me
I’d flip it on its head actually this so I was going to pull out the book uh by
John mccransky Awakening through love which I can’t seem to find at the moment and this is one of when if you will guys
work within the individually with Wendy this is one of the books that she’s requires you to read is that right Wendy
this is one of the uh
I also recommend Sam Harris as waking up as an app so that and I recommend tricycle if you’re into magazines so
that’s your kind of Avenue uh so with with Awakening through love I
didn’t I mean I just didn’t feel loved my heart was you know hard and it was it
was difficult so what I what I do as my
practice is I focus on the ways that people are kind to me
so I focus on something as simple as you and I are in
this call together and it’s an amicable call and you turn up and I turn up and you
have prep done a bit of prep work you’ve thought about so have I and we’ve got 20
meditators here which means they’ve got I mean I don’t know they might be cooking dinner or something because it’s that time of the day here but
there is an intention to engage with what we offer which is so they have a a
presence they share their presence with us that’s an they don’t they could be I don’t know
watching the Telly and doing something else but instead they’re
you know our people here are actually spending time with us taking time out of
their day to um work with this and so I prefer to do
that um and I I said that I’m I’m reviewing a document at the moment that council’s
provided about active travel and so active travel and public transport mass
transit uh these are it yeah so this is
I guess one of my acts of love and kindness is how do I apply
the my My Love For Humanity actually and
it’s through this because I want everybody to be able to get around without having to buy a car because it costs so freaking much you know only so
so few people can do it so I’m sitting here reading this document and I’m swearing and cursing it at how much is
not there but actually there’s also a lot of good intention in there and a lot
of I’ve met so I’ve met and had conversations with a couple of these
people and they are good and kind people who really care they’re really passionate about it actually so they’re
they’re trying to put forward ideas in a way that is going to be
manageable by the society by the community and I’m replying to what
they’ve put forward and and I guess my my act of kindness is to try and find
the good that they are doing so that’s enough for me I that’s more than enough but I do have another practice that I
have and I got um I got a a letter funny sort of I got a package
and a brief note from somebody who I have a strained relationship with
and as I got this package in the note I was just like that is such a weird
letter I do not understand that person at all like I was really like
what what is this person I’m about
how can they how can they move through the world like that so you know I’m not
compassionate in that moment but I’m kind of trying to figure it out and then I realized what I did this morning in my
own practice is this morning is I brought to mind this person and I thought I am that person’s difficult
person so if you were to do so your practice which is from the abhidham or where you start you know may I be well
may I be happy may I be at peace may my good friend be well be happy be at peace
man neutral person somebody I don’t know maybe I don’t know somebody in the office who you just see their face you
don’t have any interaction with made this person be wealthy happy be at peace and a difficult person a person who
pisses you off and then the whole world and so I am that person’s difficult person I you
know and and I don’t want to be that difficult person but I am that difficult person and that person finds me
absolutely baffling why am I so difficult I’m sure that’s what what that
person thinks after you know I do all these things and I try and get it right but nothing nothing is good enough
nothing is right and and so I am difficult and and I find
that a really good meta practice because it stops that my stops that thing where
the self-righteous I’m doing good bestowing wood onto other people so
that’s one they’re the practices that I like
that’s that’s it is beautiful and to think yeah that’s that’s a really good way to flip that difficult person around
right because of who knows I’m probably their difficult person too or even if not and yeah it’s it’s good you said and
also what I picked up on is uh you said you said you’re sure there’s something
and I’m like oh really Wendy how do you are you really sure about that I forget
exactly what you said there but sometimes what this often does too is it makes what I I have this uh idea about
something and a lot of times it’s right but a lot of times it’s not but however these practices will kind of put me in a
mind and heart space where when I go um then what I finally do maybe have a
chance to sit down and interact and find out you know what’s going on if it’s appropriate time with this
person you know if they’re in a space to to talk more than you know open up a little bit more than other their their
fixed view about how I am right maybe they might have a little wedge in there to kind of um get it more of an idea of
how they view me and what’s really going on in their mind when they think about me you know and what’s you know what’s
just niceties and what’s more honest and real or and so then you know it just it
kind of gets me in a place where I can be more willing to be with challenges
too I know in my own practice this morning since we were doing loving kindness um a little bit of a humble
brag here yesterday we went to moonskland and um in Denmark and it’s
this huge place by the Sea Denmark is really kind of low-lying but this is a really huge a rock out out facing on the
sea and it kind of bends uh in and out and there’s a huge amount of air element
or wind going on all the time there it’s a mix between talk and um and uh um
Flint so this very smooth uh very um crumbly Rock but with a really and then
mixed with a really hard rock so I mean the condition is real really challenging um but so one of the kindest things I
could do for myself when I got home is just sit in meditation and just do nothing you know just kind of let my
nervous system catch up with me or me catch up with my nervous system and by the time of my meditation got done I was
just about ready to be at a point where I could start meditating you know
right but I mean yeah sometimes the kindest thing I can do for myself and others is remove myself from the
situation right or allow others to be how they are you know um a girlfriend
and a and a friend that was a new friend that was there they just kind of went in
their own little space and just kind of um chilled out and weren’t social but that was and then I was provided the
space to to talk to the driver and so they could you know go offline for for a while you know
because that’s what they needed um I’m I’m laughing because uh when I met my partners that were almost three years
ago two and a half whenever it was years ago um and we were walking along and it was
sort of I think our first date or something and he said something and I said oh you know is it okay if I do such
and such and I said oh you just do your thing lovey and and he just got up for a
bit you know condescend to me and I was like okay all right well I’ve clearly
done something this is like first date whoops and then and actually you just do
your thing lovey is such a staple now in our relationship and letting someone
be able to do the thing that gives them a space a sense that they are
able to to be present you know if that’s what makes you happy you just do your
thing lovely so there is something really lovely about
the permission to because sometimes I think uh should I do that am I being
hard and by withdrawing can I do that and and just that simple acknowledgment
you know you just do your thing Lobby then it just it’s so nice to have that
permission that is a that is an act of love it it really is and it’s also giving
ourselves permission a lot of times allowing yes this allowing practice
um but one of the topics um Woody and I um thrown around for potential is this
notion of being generous in relationships right and we can be our
you know it doesn’t have to be even Intimate Relationships but here’s a question for you guys how do you be how
are you uh generous in relationships and this includes being generous to yourself to a relationship with yourself or or um
to say my part of myself being generous to myself in relationship too
um now generosity of course doesn’t have to be money all the time right it can be like Wendy was talking about our our
presence and being available you know emotionally spiritually physically
um you know psychically even if we’re gonna go that way um uh our expertise offering our being
generous with our expertise um and you know I guess whatever
qualities we have that we want to be generous with so um to answer my own question I’m
going to say I don’t know right now I want to sit with this and hear what Wendy has to say
um that’s yeah you know to go back one other comment I wanted to make too with we were talking about the councils and
things like this and it’s um for me I have to hold back a lot of times because
a lot of times I want to go in there and I want to say okay yes I totally honor and respect the the
good part of this and it’s coming from a good heart but I see these distortions and if only these distortions were
cleared even more goodness can come through but you know I might even be
give more distortions by doing that so but when I do I’ve learned the hard way I really only try to correct people if
they ask if they ask um for my advice right however and Wendy
did say abhidham which is actually um the vasuti Maga anyway it’s this technical detail right yeah but but this
is this is um a thing you know and then even if we are asked to for um feedback
and advice how do we do it in the best way because things some people can be
very touchy about things right if we push the wrong button say the wrong thing so then I have to start well do I
need to walk on eggshells around this person or what then there’s other people who probably need a little bit more of
that like me I’m probably way too wide open and invite too many things in
sometimes but you know it’s this Balancing Act of how how are we going to
bring uh to the table uh when somebody asks for advice and wisdom too okay so I
think I put enough things out there let me the the questions I ask were um what okay how do you show generosity
generosity and relationship and then the other main thing is um kind of when
people ask for advice and wisdom and how we Dole it out and how do we
same for you you guys too please uh share if someone comes to you for advice and wisdom you know how do you deal with
it what are your what are your standards for doing that or how do you go about that
I’ve been looking while you’ve been talking I’ve been looking at the five I’ve got five people at the bottom of
the screen let me see if I can bring up more uh who uh no only five so
five people who are at the bottom of my screen and we have people in France and
we have people in England and are you talking about on YouTube are you talking about insight timer inside timer
Yes mine shows 36 and there’s eight people
but I’ve got okay I’ve only got four people four baubles oh I see yeah yeah
yeah same here okay so I was thinking about generosity and love and one of the
topics that uh Josh you and I were chatting about is
the um curly topic of inheritance
so I’ve Heard lots of stories where
inheritances you know what we inherit is is really an
expression of love that’s how we see did that person love me and
I’ve heard situation it’s a complex thing because money is finite and if
somebody doesn’t have an enormous estate well that’s something if somebody has a huge estate then that thing so
um uh what was that name of the beetle who got killed I’ve suddenly gone drawn a
blank well the Beatles we’ve got Ringo uh no no John Lennon of course John Lennon that’s
who it was so he apparently put a clause in his said anyone who
constantly cut out of it because he just knew how many people would be championed a bit for it so I thought that was a
very interesting thing but um
I’ve known lots of situations where you have an older family children from a
first marriage and when the It’s usually the father dies
and they’ve had kids by a second wife then all the money goes to the second
wife and the second children which is yet more abandonment and that is really
the older children get very incensed by that and very hurt
and I also heard the story about and that one I’ve heard lots and lots and lots or even if there’s no children
together that it all goes to the second wife and so the the children of the
first marriage don’t get anything even if that was the house that that child was raised in really complicated stuff
and then I heard the story about a guy who had had to give up his work in order
to care for the parents and when they died their parents left split it exactly
50 50 between the two children now the other son had was a very wealthy
solicitor so because it went right down straight down
the middle the house had to be sold and so this person had been living in that house
caring who had given up their work suddenly found themselves really in a much worse situation there had been no I
guess compensation for the fact that this child had really put themselves out for the care of the parents
so I think inheritance is a really complex question when it comes to love
and how do you how do you do that one of the Tibetan practices that I really like and I did
this with a client when he was when they was thinking about how am I going to allocate all the shares with the other
co-founders when they’re not pulling their weight so there’s a very complex process to think about and
there is a practice where you put you imagine you’ve got all your wealth you
get your you get your wallet or purse or something and then you imagine giving them
everything you so you have nothing and then you imagine not giving anything
and then testing it how imagine giving some or a bit and then sussing out what
feels good and that that’s actually a monastic practice so before you be going to become a monk you try that and then
you see what you’re still really attached to your big most favoritest possession you know something very dear
that has been a gift from someone that’s uh that that I find that’s a
really good practice on generosity because it really gives you can’t cheat with it
and there’s another one on the metabavna practice the standard loving kindness meditation practice where you’ve got you
know may I be well may I be happy so I guess that in these days you don’t have
so many meditation Halls you know so many have closed down due to covert but
if you’re in if you’re doing loving kindness meditation in a group then instead of saying may I be well may
I be happy bring to mind somebody in the room who is with you and they are wishing you to
be there wishing themselves to be well and then somebody who likes you and then
somebody you feel somebody you don’t really know and then somebody who thinks you’re a pain in the ass and then
everybody in the whole room and just see see how that lands because it’s really shitty when you have somebody who’s
who who they’re sending you loving kindness and
you don’t like them it was like oh piss off you know
so yeah we talked about this last time right uh usually we don’t hear so much about the receiving end of this but just
think of how many thousands of practitioners in any given moment are sending loving kindness to all beings
everywhere and so if we get exhausted or we think we have to send it out there what about just sitting back and basking
in that goodness and it’s even more immediate if we’re in the same room with someone yeah like Wendy mentioned that
is a really good thing right it’s not just a one-way Street here yeah
now this inheritance thing it really fascinates me so um me being you know a guy in more
practical right and want to fix everything sometimes um I would just offer to not not going to solve all the
world’s inheritance Problems by this but you know what would it be like to just invite everybody you know in a uh at a
time and just talk about these things the thing is there’s so much emotionality involved in this I would
say a lot of entitlement involved here too a lot of righteousness
um and then it just brings up past memories around people around things now
for me the way I look at this is um you know this is uh
what if I was okay with getting absolutely nothing you know um how would
I feel about that you know you know how in sitting with that practice too and now Wendy mentioned the monastic practice it’s really good but
now think of being on the receiving end of this okay what if I did that get absolutely nothing inheritance from
which is easy for me to say actually because you know I’ve actually received
a little bit of early inheritance probably too much personal information here so just just keep that in mind it’s
easier for me to say that right not a lot but um but the thing is what would it be like if I got nothing what if I you know
how would I how would I take that and then the opposite extreme what if I somehow found out about some rich uncle
or somebody came into a ton of money right before their death and then left me everything you know and like John he
had the opposite problem like he is because there’s going to be so many people after that right or somebody wins the lottery you people come out of the
Woodworks and say you’re a friend how am I going to do that now I have all this responsibility that I have to people
would say it’s great but some people would be like no there’s gonna be you know my life will never be this same I’m
gonna have to you know have so much more you know More Money More Problems as
they say so this is a great practice and I hear in the monastic life that um you can’t you can’t even ordain if
you have debt um and I guess the in some traditions because one of the things was people would Escape debt they would just run
away from it and go ordain and then nobody would go after a monk right because they’ve they’re fairly well
protected and society and things like this so they weren’t allowed to even ordain if they were in debt so this is
an another thing right um yeah so it was like what would and then this
is speaking of generosity by the way okay if you’re on insight timer we’re encouraged on the Live Events to ask for
donations and how it will help us uh and of course it will help pay the website bills of course and so I can still still
do this but this is the standard generosity practice like in for late practitioners and just anybody in
general what is it like um to before I give a gift before I give
an act of generosity what do I feel like how does it land on me you know uh how
is my heart then again what I’m giving and then again afterwards as well so and
I like Whitney’s practice how it takes it even further by um you know Imagining the amounts right and then this is it
ties it into a mindfulness of death too because this is you know our inheritance this means that we’re going to be gone
after this right so this is a mindfulness of death to the inevitable that we’re not no one is going to be
able to take anything with us so how much is it really worth to get upset you know prolonged amount of time over this
when we can’t even you know we can’t take anything with this anyway I think uh you know but I I have I have
seen people say oh you know when my pet and when my father died when my you know it
was all fine I was totally at peace with it it was all fine I just to me I think
wow that sounds like spiritual bypassing so I think it is important to
acknowledge that things wrinkle that it’s not easy it’s not comfortable
it’s not pleasant and to me that’s where the work is not to say I’m a good person
I’m all over it you know I’m I’m cured but to say oh wow actually this is
this is difficult practice and I think that’s why so much so I want to go back
a little bit to the yeah I think honestly yeah that’s the big
thing about this are we lying to ourselves about this yeah and I think you know one of the things that I have
heard and I I see this too and certainly this was my case is I found it really
difficult to do loving kindness meditation because love was so strongly associated with romance it was
associated with my sense of worth as a person uh it reflected difficult
relationships with people in my family I’d also struggled with the fact that I
was often single so it it it was it was it felt more like it
was an unloved meditation more than a loved a meditation about feeling unloved
in a meditation about feeling love and yeah I guess where am I going with it
but I think there is something important to to say loving kindness meditation is
not easy and in fact it’s so twisty in our society a lot of teachers
don’t even call it loving kindness practice anymore they call it something else and benefactor you know good will
or benefaction or something yeah I like Unstoppable friendliness in this it’s a
well-wishing too I know I can just Echo Wendy’s statement when I first started this all of a sudden I started
remembering all these times the exact opposite and I think this is fairly common especially amongst practitioners
first starting a loving kindness practice the exact opposite of what we want comes up and at the same time I
look at that in retrospect as what needed to come up as a type of cleansing and purification
um I I would see how I treated myself like really low quality but also other
people and it was really heart-wrenching to kind of see that in the Mind’s Eye and relive that and actually weak during
that process a lot of times too um you know I was by myself but then it
was just it felt like a relief to to have that come up you know because oh
wow you know this is it really hurt that time you know oh I could have really
hurt that other person I didn’t really mean to do that you know or I can see how they want to be happy just like me
right um to now where it kind of evolves into yes I liked it I like when people are
friendly to me that’s that feels good it feels actually really good to have someone authentically friendly towards
me uh at least maybe if I’m not having a if I’m having a bad day I’m just kind of like
but at the most part in the more than likely people are going to reciprocate
in a similar way that we put forth right or we will reciprocate a lot of times to
match the energy of what’s coming at us so of course it’s it’s it seems beneficial if I at least don’t cause any
more problems for people people have enough problems and issues they’re dealing with too I don’t need to
contribute any more to that and that’s how I would like to be treated too you know this this kind of cheesy or but
also helpful Golden Rule treat other people like we’d like to be treated right so imagine how would if someone
what is this here’s a question for Wendy in the audience how would you like people to treat you right how how would
I like to be treated by you know different people in my life my friends my family myself my enemies how would I
want to have them treat me and I love this other question that’s kind of along the same lines is if what would the
world look like if everybody was doing what I was doing so this is more of a rhetorical question
but you know it really makes me think about um the things that you know I think I
can get away with or you know oh it’s no big deal you can do this but what if
everybody was doing exactly what I was doing what would the world so yeah I want to get it back to the Q a
of meditation yes okay so so how does this look like
in a meditation practice okay so um so I I remembered there was a um a
meditation tricycle I was reading it an article and there was a practice called
Nikon it’s a Zen it was in practice I guess
and there are three questions so he describes he goes on Retreat for a week
and the only practice he does is these three questions and he says what have I
received from others and then the next question is what have
I given to others which I think ties in with what you’re saying there and what
troubles and difficulties have I caused others and I think that’s a that that’s quite
nice because then it starts to be oh dear oh dear and
and we don’t we always want to see ourselves as the good guy
and I think seeing ourselves as the difficult person the trouble we are the troublemakers
I find that um it’s very humbling
and uh just I think it’s really easy to so I’ve met
a couple of people who follow a [ __ ] similar slightly different path which is
a Vita and they have recognized no self but there isn’t the loving kindness part of
it that I can’t see that as part of that practice and so here are these people who are
really clear they see really clearly but you know they in in Buddhism we talk
about there are two wings of a bird wisdom and compassion and you need to have
compassion but too much is no good and not enough is no good and in fact as
anyway I’m digressing here we’re so excited about all the different things
so what was your question Josh yeah exactly so we’re going to look at these more in in the meditation practice and I
I’m glad you brought up that that Zen practice because that’s kind of what I was getting at right so this is a formal
practice you know um how do these really land in the heart when we’re doing our meta practice on
the cushion you know um really tuning into how this feels in
the body and the heart and the mind when we’re Wishing Well to other people
um yeah and uh how would uh in like Wendy was saying the practice of just the imagining of what other people how
does it land when we we practice about receiving loving-kindness friendliness Goodwill you know non non-ill well how
does that land in the heart and then yeah if we’re doing more of a contemplation practice what are the
benefits of this how can we see this benefit off the cushion um I guess um uh I wanted to talk about
maybe talk is it called tonglen the Tibetan practice yeah we can talk about that in a sec but um I wanted to ask
about um and then also how do we take this off the cushion has anybody how do we practice this in our everyday lives do
we um as more of a formal practice though it’s it’s hard to do this when we’re interacting when we’re interacting
it’s just kind of our practice you know the re the fruit of our practice can kind of come through right I mean I’m
sure there’s artificial methods for us like doing eye gazing and wishing each other well and things like this and
these are those are beautiful kind of more um public or interactive practice
like meditation circling and these uh people call them dyad practice and
there’s Insight dialogue which maybe we’ll even do a show about at some point or something but I mean one of the
things I do if I remember of it and remember it if we’re standing in line or if I’m standing in line at the grocery
store you know how can I uh at least bring less ill will towards what I’m
viewing in the grocery store I mean does my mind spin off too and when I’m in the States look at all this GMO crap food
with all the additives and poison in it is that really gonna do me or anybody good in that moment no because it’s it’s
already there right it’s not going to do me any good but what about the people that are there why not I wish them well
in health and happiness you know in the rest of their day or you know or even just acknowledge that they’re in front
of me and that they’re not just taking up my time you know part of a line something like this you know
um or just driving driving by people or just acknowledging that someone’s passing me by in the store instead of
just shutting off to the aisle that I need to to get something this these really small acts of kindness we can
bring these into our daily lives on off the cushion I mean a lot of people have so much stuff going on there’s not a lot
of capacity for this but even just a remembering to do some of these things right
so I mean Wendy had you do this in your daily life I mean the I think the the beautiful practice of giving
acknowledgment to the the native people on your land is a beautiful loving-kindness practice like you say do
you do anything else in daily life as torah’s um kindness and these type of things
yeah yeah in real life so in in these moments
um I tend to do the one what is so what is the person giving me in this moment
it’s that person taking time time out of their their day for my well-being so
something as simple as you’ve got a meeting and people have prepared documents for that
meeting they have thought about what will work because when we go to work we don’t just
work nine to five or even if you work longer hours eight to six
you’re not just there thinking about work during that time people are thinking about work outside that time
so that’s that’s to just really notice all the contributions that people make
that is I think one one thing really lovely and I have found that that has changed the way that I am but there is
also one of the things that I I was really stuck with is that I was doing that
but I also come from a family which is really condescending and so I had this
unconscious stuff that was coming across as people would say you’re so patronizing
I’m talking about I’m not I’m not I’m not and then just a couple of weeks ago
I was sitting on in the morning sitting going oh I’m so condescending
oh that’s why they told me I was so condescending it’s because I was condescending
and so so we can offer we can give treat
others as we would like to have done back to us but we don’t know how we treat people sometimes
you know and that was a big challenge hey just just so you know we’ve got seven minutes left sure I I um that’s it
was a big trigger for me when people when I at least perceived other people to be condescending I really for
whatever reason it really um it it kind of hurt or triggered something and then I one way I realized
that when I was perceiving that um it’s just like well you know some people that’s how they they distance
themselves from the world right so if there’s a sense of condensation it’s kind of like a protection mechanism a
little bit right um and I I find myself doing it too right I don’t think anybody of us have
completely cut that off um now I want to just give shout out to Wendy too because when we did our first
very podcast um uh before we started these uh things she really acknowledged the fact that uh
publicly that thank you for doing these podcasts they take a lot of preparation and things like and uh you know in a lot
of work and I just wow somebody finally acknowledged this and I was totally
unconscious the entire time I was really looking um for someone to acknowledge all the
work it took because it you know it goes in the behind the scenes and then once I just had that simple acknowledgment I
had this realization like wow I was really seeking that from outside myself for so long you know and then there was
just like this huge relief in this realization that wait a second I can give that to myself I really don’t need
it outside myself so much you know but it took that outside mirror to show that
I was seeking for it outside myself and it was just like this aha moment and you
know um yeah it was great so I just wanted to do that and the other thing that occurred to me we talked about
um uh what goes along the lines of some of these things we’ve talked about but this new term I’ve heard not too long
ago toxic positivity
I know that I grew up with it it used to be called positive thinking yeah and I
always were actually helpful in a way but then some people take it too far right and then it gets toxic too so oh
yeah I think the thing the way that so I had a bit of a conversation with somebody
late last year about this where it was about being really positive and I felt
like where is the where is the line and you talked before about you know how do
people see us and what do we want from our relationships what do we want from our connections
and I want people to see my heart my my emotional landscape my
that that’s what’s important to me but when I talk with family members they’re
only interested about where I’ve gone what I’ve done where I live where what do I you know
and they’re not a materialistic family they’re just not interested in the emotional landscape so it feels quite
bereft for me a lot of the time so that
so where was I going with that so on the one hand there’s this toxic positivity
yeah hi it’s so nice to meet you you know and I just go I’m so excited like a
lot of Americans do this I’m so excited when the podcast thing oh this is such
an exciting show and I’m thinking do they do that every single show yeah I’m really excited really and to me it
doesn’t it doesn’t feel sincere and there’s something about when somebody is sincere and positive you can let the
[ __ ] you can let crap in it doesn’t have to be lovely and warm and kind you you
have but you do have to have emotional breadth and debts yourself to be able to
manage that because as one of my relatives said to me oh you’re always dumping on me you know it’s an emotional
dump and actually I realized that that person doesn’t have the capacity to
to to understand the emotional landscape which is why we have so many conflicts
actually yeah and this is this is one that I I struggle with too is that um uh
you know okay so the the this wise advice of people can only meet us as
deeply if they’ve met themselves right so if I’m looking for someone to get
really involved and in deep things and I keep forgetting oh wait a second they
don’t do any of these practices it’s just on the surface level and that you do not have the capacity
these will bring up things and people that they’re not either not ready to deal with or if they have no idea how
you know how to deal with them so they don’t have the tools if some of these things come up right so I’m constantly
reminding them myself of that and that just shows our power in a way in our responsibility I need or no we I can’t
speak for myself of what I’m you know what I can possibly bring up on people and are they able to handle it or you
know a lot most you know thankfully most people can sense right away and so they they kind of distance themselves or only
talk about very surface level things because it is a really deep thing now on the other end I know um I really
involved uh like psychological and emotional depth however at the same time
I also liked doing on the productive American I like to get things done and so sometimes I’m like okay well how much
of an emotional process do I need to be with this person right now and uh it’s
just like in in a way it’s it’s this is something I’m still grappling with because if I
think that way then I’m kind of not valuing the other person as much too right but and at the same time we
there’s only so much time in the day as well um so it’s it’s the balancing and then
that I mean a more traditional masculine qualities and masculine’s not as fascinated in emotions although I can go
very deeply and be involved and be there and really appreciate the process at the
same time just know that there’s a masculine quality that’s more it’s different a lot of times than our
feminine qualities um so it’s it again it’s a balancing act this type of thing yeah yeah we’re at
times all right well it says six o’clock according to Michael yes I just turned
this way so uh guys thank you all so much for our uh at least considering to
share your hearts with us and open your hearts and consider some of these practices
um all the things we did well uh welcome to write in questions and
when do you want you to leave folks with something here what would you like to learn uh what should I leave them with I
think so we have a number of Americans I’ve been checking we have a number of Americans and Mr Rogers has received
gracefully so always receive gracefully and I think that is a really beautiful practice and then you can be with who
you are and the thing that I learned with family I’m a bit slow on the uptake for this one is that they are
essentially strangers who you happen to have Blood Ties with so you don’t have
anything in common with them except the fact that you have Blood Ties and some
common experiences but effectively they’re like office workers you don’t have anything in common with them they
are not friends well I I sometimes you’re lucky but yeah sure and I like to
extrapolate this to other people too because sometimes I can get oh Wendy is like this Wendy is this type of way but
what if I went into it with a brand new stranger look every time that way I don’t solidify find My Views towards
someone and only see that this person’s always late this person’s always on time I know this person they’re like this
well what if they’re what if I went into with fresh eyes every time and just like what can I learn new about this person
today you know that I’ve never seen in this way before that’s right that’s a really nice that’s
a really nice practice that’s it we’re over time Josh all right all right guys be well
have fun
Integrating Presence 