In this ninth installment of the ongoing live series with Wendy Nash inquiring into meditation practice on and off the cushion we explore language and the variability in interpretation especially in the light of how we use English terms for ideas and may not actually understand them
Wendy writes:
I was thinking about the history of translating Pali terms and how culture has played a big role in poor translations, e.g. dukkha, sunyata, sati, dhamma, sangha, bodhi.
Now that you [Josh, me] live outside the US and are learning Danish, it gives a new perspective on how tricky it is to translate well and how easy it is to misunderstand what people are trying to convey in their own language.
We also mention Wendy’s work with transportation, home retreat, love, belonging, the myth of impartiality, dream like nature of reality, love (as demonstration), waking up, “what ever we think the truth is it’s always other than that,” etc.
And as far as translating Pali I found the following articles from puredhamma.net of particular interest, which we may or may not discuss some of:
- Misinterpretation of Anicca and Anatta by Early European Scholars
- Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta – Wrong Interpretations
- “Elephant in the Room” – Direct Translation of the Tipiṭaka
- Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa
- Preservation of the Buddha Dhamma
(Other ways to) join these Q & A’s when they happen live:
- via downloading the free Wisdom app in your app store or via: https://wisdom.audio where I’m @integratingpresence
- watch on my YouTube channel
*There’s naturally an ongoing open call for meditation (related) questions for the (roughly) monthly “Meditation Q & A” either by the various social media means listed; integratingpresence[at]protonmail.com or Wisdom App to type/ask live.*
Background
Regular, current and past visitors to Integrating Presence may recall the monthly series “Ask Us Anything” I did with Denny K Miu from August 2020 until January 2022 — partially including and continuing on with Lydia Grace as co-host for awhile until March 2022.
For a few months thereafter I did various Insight Timer live events exploring potential new directions and/or a continuation of the Ask Us Anything format while weaving in other related teachings to these events.
Then, after chats with meditation coach Wendy Nash, it became clear to start a new collaboration similar to “Ask Us Anything” simply and clearly called “Meditation Q & A” especially due to the original intent of the Ask Us Anything’s being “discussions about meditation and related topics.”
Audio: Language: Meaning, Interpretation And Impartiality | May 25, 2023 “Meditation Q & A With Wendy Nash” #09
Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)
Past chats with Wendy:
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
hold of integratingpresence.com and today I’m joined Again by Wendy Nash of
kindlycutthecrap.com Wendy how’s it going yeah
yeah in Queensland so we are cold not like you well it’s probably warmer than
it is for you
I’m doing this on wisdom app I for them to hear you I have to turn up my speaker so I’m going to see if this works like
this and uh this is our ninth installment of meditation q a and um
and I’m calling from Wales I’m at an Airbnb and just to catch people up
really quick I finished a retreat with Insight Meditation Society IMS in the
east coast of or roughly of America Berry Massachusetts where I was doing it online and it was really good to
practice in nature here a little bit and to do it from an Airbnb and uh it’s
interesting how their The Retreat got closed down because they had Plumbing issues so they were trying to deal with
it for a while but then they called it off and the people went home early and joined online so it’s interesting it’s
their first hybrid retreat they spent so much time in cameras cameras and stuff like this and then they have Plumbing issues but before that I stayed in a
monastery for two weeks and I had never done that outside of retreat that was really interesting interesting planning on going the whole month of June at
amravati Buddhist Monastery and so that’s going to be quite quite an
experience I feel and so that’s just to kind of catch up what’s going on here um when uh oh you know and I have a new
found so you know traveling uh walking and whatnot and riding buses this
reminds me of something that Wendy sent and Wendy’s been doing some some work on the public transportation front and I
think since we’re not due to technically start here for another four minutes I wanted to ask Wendy about that and give
her a chance to say kind of the work she’s been doing on this so Wendy what you’ve been up to with this in this area
so there’s been a I had questions about The Meditation Retreat I was like oh I
wonder how it’s gone but we can talk about that too oh yeah so yeah so the group it’s a community
movement called get around Cabo car free because I live in a place called caboolture so it’s the vernacular term
for it is Cabo so get around Cabo carefree and I guess it is really a big
expression an extension of my Dharma practice so usually we have the Dharma practice in a western perspective and
it’s about me how am I feeling how am I engaging with the world what am I doing
what are my problems and when I moved up here a year ago so
we I moved up here uh a year ago which is kind of amazing I don’t know if you and I were online we must have been
online only in this well I’ve been up here and uh
and I just sat on the bus and I went this is rubbish this bus trip it took me
it takes an hour and a half to go something which is 11 minutes by car it’s absolutely rubbish and so I’ve been
looking at how to make it better around here and basically cars are the most
financially fiscally economically landscape land use Community it’s it’s
the most expensive most inefficient least good use of land and money
and there’s this idea that it’s efficient but it’s it’s sort of not because it’s limiting it’s it’s a very
linear process so it starts with this idea that you just want to go A to B
and there aren’t implications if you get in a ton of metal and you do that
but of course there’s a whole lot of larger picture about it so I do it because I care about the community I
want everybody to be able to get around caboolture car free because it’s not
good for the planet it’s not good for the community it’s not good for people who don’t have the means it’s very
um yeah it’s very exclusionary and it’s very gendered because women
often learn less than men and so owning a car is is
takes up a greater proportion of their pay so what have you been doing I know you
you have a Facebook group right in just connecting people bringing awareness to what’s going on what what people might
not know about the issue right and and uh just kind of maybe playing interplay between officials or or what what you’re
right yeah so a lot of education for myself actually because I just started
it and I didn’t know anything about it so I just a lot of Education meeting Council officials municipality
um uh being inspired so giving speeches
uh learning facts and figures um
yeah working with volunteers so learning how to lead a community group and how
you know when someone’s a volunteer I always think you know I I teach high-tech startup Founders how to be
good leaders of their business and I just think they should all just
start a community advocacy group where everybody volunteers because you get one
person off one time they’re gone they do it for the love and
no other reason so you have to really honor their presence it’s a very it’s it’s a very
interesting process so yeah that’s really good too and the the
culture is what the culture around Tech in any businesses is huge too so what what I
guess the the only other thing I really have with this now is what’s the reception then for your work around this
and how has it been received basically you know yeah I mean
it’s good some people get it some people really get it and
I give them an answer and it’s fantastic and they love it
and then some people are going what are you talking about what are you I don’t get like and what I really notice is
that when when you sit within the more
objectifying mind then what I’m describing is underneath that
objectifying mind it’s exploratory It’s Curious it’s open whereas people who have a very
objectifying mind it’s much more shut down and so they don’t get it so it is a
a better a bit of a they either get it or they don’t kind of thing in all truth
um I find that people under 40 much much more you know they’ve figured
it out that they’re all they’re totally get it people over 50 kind of don’t not
even not even close so on the whole that’s pretty much how it is
pretty pretty wild that how the these generational gaps and divides can be so
significantly different you know it’s it’s it it really amazes me time and time again so yeah so so you
said well cool I’m glad to see your work on that and exploring that and see what what comes of that and see if you know
what kind of momentum or just even you know if it it helps people out you know even individually you know they can that
it makes a huge difference so so you said you’re gonna go you said you were gonna ask about Retreat stuff
um yeah I know we talked a little bit about your retreat the home retreat you did no I
wanted to ask you about your retreat yeah yeah that’s what reminded me of you
sharing a little bit about your home retreat too and so for me it was uh it was really interesting I haven’t really
practiced in relationship on uh on a home retreat before it’s just been me on
my own before so it’s a completely different Dynamic so um I don’t know what to say about it
publicly at this point other than you know it was different and um yeah there’s I guess if you have
specific specific questions about it maybe we’ll see what I can say about it so before we get into the topic today
yeah and of course anybody listening and watching um and you’re welcome to chime in with questions at any time and uh yeah did
you do it with your girlfriend in the in the BNB well yeah I mean she didn’t join me per
se you know doing the retreat as I did it she when she was there while I was doing it for most of the time yeah right
and so you’ve got one person doing the retreat and one person just in the background she’s quite a keen meditator
though isn’t she well she was early on in her um uh
career in practice so yeah so no no so not so much anymore though as far as formal sitting practice and it was
actually her she wasn’t familiar with the The Retreat container in in Buddhism and how it’s structured and whatnot so
that took a little bit of um oh I don’t know yeah I said so she was
she became familiar with that as it unfolded yeah yeah because I guess it wasn’t I I um I guess I didn’t spend
enough time explaining exactly what it involved and entailed and uh yeah it’s it’s notice that what what I say is is
completely different from what the not completely different but it can only vaguely point to what actually it is
right and yeah the thing is it’s all in inner experience for the most part however there’s the times where we’re
interacting with those uh we live with too on on home retreat or possibly if there’s not enough space in the area and
it’s not structured in a way so yeah yeah yeah yeah that’s great
so let’s let’s start the topic sure so we are talking about translating
the nuances of translating so you’re learning Danish slowly slowly
and actually I think that would be too much of a compliment a plan and planning
to learn it yes yes that’s the thing so I have done a few free things online but
uh yeah that’s a kind way to put it but let me just let me just read what Wendy
wrote me and uh it’s some it’s on the blog post and um we um in this ninth installment of
the ongoing live series with Andy Nash acquiring into meditation practice on and off the cushion we plan to explore
explore language and the variability variability and interpret interpretation
especially in light of how we use English terms for ideas uh and may not actually understand them
so that’s a big one these just everyday English terms we use and how we might not actually fully understand them
and then Wendy said I was thinking about the history of translating poly terms and how culture has played a big role in
poor translations for example duka Sunita Sati dhamma Sangha Bodhi now that
you that’s me Josh live outside the United States and learning dangling danglish Danish it gives a new
perspective on how tricky it is to translate well and how easy it is to misunderstand what people are trying to
convey in their own language yeah it’s a huge thing and so I gave these lists to um these articles
specifically in poly since Wendy and I have studied uh Buddhism and the biggest
one I found the most that I might refer to here is uh Anita duka anata but I’ve
thrown uh in how those those key things those key characteristics of existence may not actually be what the common
translation that we’ve come to be which I find fascinating but so the big topics here just uh to reiterate is um uh just
language in general and the variability in interpretation you know and how we
think one thing can mean something but it actually might mean another and then um how these these these terms maybe
have cultural implications in the translation and then I um the nichiduka
not uh which basically are commonly translated as you know um
yeah impermanence which is I think not very good one suffering which is okay and then and not done not self and maybe
we’ll see how um I’d like to check or bring shed some new light on there but Wendy where do you want to start with
this ah see I I was thinking actually Enlightenment because that came out of
the idea that it was somehow associated with the European Enlightenment movement
and that’s what but they they got the they they didn’t have that academic
knowledge the language skills to properly understand it
so and so that’s one um which I think is
is difficult I think another one is wisdom and even we’re on an app called
the wisdom app and when I meet people and they go oh yes it’s about wisdom there’s this idea that you’re you’re
using your inner knowledge and there’s some imparting the great wisdom this is
this is our own cultural knowledge so and it’s not at all that you know
I think I I found the best translation was Bodhi which is why I put that word
in but there’s nothing to do Bodhi has nothing to do with wisdom and
dukkha obviously is usually translated as suffering but it’s just it’s kind of
just come sort of discomfort anything that feels a bit uncomfortable really from Tiny to
completely awful yeah yeah Duke I think the literal
translation is it it meant like a chariot Axel and so if there was a uh
you know it was a little bit off then you’d get a really bumpy ride it was just you know it just you know it had to go a long way like that it was just not
smooth sailing pretty much and so to go to the first one the the the challenges
the early European scholars had just from reading this site pure pure dhamma uh and I read the search for the Buddha
too and you know supposedly um poly is a oral language it didn’t it
wasn’t um written down until a long time after and it didn’t have its own script to write it down so it was written in
the singles is this singly script uh yeah and so it never was translated word
for word until these early European scholars started translating and they were faced a daunting task because they
were translating Sanskrit at the same time and you know um and so they it’s a
completely like like foreign to them and so and then they had they had to figure out what was poly and what was Sanskrit
because some of it’s quite similar right and not only um that is the Buddha was said to not
even speak poly he was he was said to speak uh manga I I forget the exact uh
language but then after it was preserved in a language it’s called poly and it
was a spoken language but it didn’t have its own script so all this stuff and supposedly it wasn’t even translated
into um was it Senegalese until 2007 a complete word for word
translation two thousand early mid to so this is like this is so uh baffling I mean that’s only a few of the challenges
of this uh but uh okay but so I’ll put that on hold and maybe come back to that because the Wendy talked also about the
wisdom but there was one more thing in there wasn’t there uh
oh yes so yeah duka that’s a good one I can get to when we talk about uh Nietzsche dukanata but the wisdom thing
is really really key here I find this is really helpful so my definition of wisdom is it it does come into knowledge
but it’s the application of knowledge so so so we get it goes from information we
get information then with that information we can gain knowledge sometimes um you know but then to apply that
knowledge in everyday life so wisdom to me is how I am in the world
um acting skillfully from what um kind of how I I know not from a book I
mean there’s wisdom in books too but it’s just like how do I know this for myself
how do I really know something to my core to my bones and then using that to
inform how I am in the world and how I how I can do skillful actions that lead
away from suffering not towards more suffering now this is interesting with
this notion of Bodhi which uh what’s your translation for it some people say it’s in you know the enlightened right
and uh or um yeah how would How would how do we want to look at this or how would you
look at this
yeah really that’s you know and and it’s it’s seeing clearly and then does it
cause harm in which case that’s dukkha does it
um is it are we making it solid and that’s interdependence or emptiness
uh is it our minds very stiff uh well
then it would be the opposite of mindfulness you know we are not mindful which is Sati
you know is it according to this sort of
um way of life which is dumber
so and and it the word I thought actually Sangha so westerners use this word in a
very different way to Asians so Asians the Sangha is the is the
monastic community but I heard a teacher I can’t remember
her name now and she said oh what you call Sangha that’s not what we call
Sangha what you call Sangha is a congregation like the Christian term in a church
and I thought yeah that’s completely right that is how we use it we use it as you know we all come together as if we
are the community but we’re we’re not using it according to the Asian term so it’s sort of
misappropriation in some ways we’re not using it correctly in that way this is a
really good point because when I um when I was in the monastery for two weeks and it’s a Thai Forest tradition and they
talk about Sangha and you know I’ve had the the kind of the western watered-down Notions of it too and and uh I think it
has different meanings and different layers for other people I think it yeah it can mean just the monastic community
and I don’t even know if the anagarkas are the novices or technically included I have I still have to learn that so I
don’t know if it’s but obviously it applies to the fully ordained because right that however you know it sometimes
I think if I if I’m getting this right it was used in the context of the everybody that was involved there but it
wasn’t used as much of that as just the monastics and to take it one step further I’ve heard effort to Sangha also
in the is well is just kind of the entire just a spiritual Community right
it was really Loosely defined but the the one that I really want to point out is the inner song uh uh and and this
could be a total Distortion but I’ve heard this mention it resonated with me as well how does that Express on the
inner when we’re talking about Sangha here it’s all expressed out early but um
with within it talks about was this notion of kalyanamita spiritual friendship but then also how our heart
is you know how the chitta is how um uh how it how we’re touched by what goes on
and how we can bring forth from the inside uh this this kind of awake awareness this loving awareness this
connection um that’s also that’s commonly associated with uh spiritual friends
spiritual community and um the yeah from the but from the inside out instead of
from the outside in so the the inner version of that yeah um
and then the topic you were talking about before that was um
no Bodhi Bodhi so yeah in wisdom this the scene clearly is one thing that it’s
so important and that I completely overlooked so I’m not seeing that clearly right it’s um
seeing things as they more as they are instead of how we want them to be so you
know this this kind of this alignment with the importance of that that’s
that’s closer to truth to me and instead of what I want things to be how they actually are and not denying that or
pretending it’s not that way but then once I can see more of how it actually is then I can better respond to it right
and also set aspirations around where I’d um you know how I’d like to interact
with it and and these kind of things I can aspire to but if I’m not seeing something clearly it’s it’s a really
hard going to do anything else really I feel and people I don’t think people have seen the importance of that they
just like to live more in a dream world uh you know and I don’t know not to not
to discredit that but um in this this comes around waking up as well so I thought that was a really
important point to highlight around the as well yeah I mean but I
I always in a dream and it I you know I guess until we’re a
Buddha we’re always in that dream we’re always caught in that seduction you know
um yeah but we were talking about translation what’s the impact and I think so there is a big Western cultural
overlay that meditation is all paired back that it’s somehow separated from
the the people who do it and of course the people who practice meditation are
fully embedded in that that they’re somehow it’s an impartiality now here in
Australia we’ve we’ve had a big thing in the last couple of days one of our really fantastic journalists has
resigned he’s Aboriginal and he said I’m just tired of the racial torrent so my family I have to protect my family
so I’m gonna just come offline and one of the commentators was saying
you know the thing about journalism is it’s about impartiality this is the point of Journalism is to be impartial
and I think in Buddhism as well there’s this idea that somehow each person
we’re supposed to be impartial but we we are there in there in the mix
with our blind spots of culture that that we come so you’re a guy you’re
white you’re middle class you’ve you’re American you’ve got that cultural thing
that you don’t really know how much you’re in that and I’m white and I’m a
woman and I’m middle class and I’m from Australia and I’ve lived in a couple of different countries and so I also have
a particular cultural perspective and so we these kind of our cultures we
don’t know how much we don’t know
you just so these are good points um I think the impartial thing is something
speaking of misinterpreting words that I think is a real key thing to understand
around this but I wanted to pick up real quick on the the the the um the dreamlike nature of reality and
yes you know it is I think that’s the best way to describe you know what this
is or isn’t because uh saying it’s not real to me isn’t helpful you know I mean
that can that can be helpful sometimes but that’s what I tell people if you think that tree’s not real just go run
into it at full speed and tell me it’s not real right okay so there’s a type of reality to it right but a dream like
nature it’s more like what we once you know waking up from a dream it seems so real right like it’s just this is I
can’t believe you know this is this and this then we wake up it’s like wait wait what happened that that’s completely gone that was just a fabrication of
whatever you know and so the this that’s why I like this notion of waking up even though it’s become kind of cliche and
you yes it is and I feel it’s just as important to set an aspiration to wake up though instead of just writing it off
as completely an a daunting task that you know we’ll never achieve in eons and eons which may be the case but I feel
the more we can set an aspiration to wake up the more the more we can um
the more helpful it may be to actually be that way to to to have more degrees of a Awakening yeah and so if you want
to comment on that maybe and then this and then I would ask you well what is in um what is this notion of impartial and
what do you mean by that yeah because that’s a really key here um yeah so what is what is impossible
well it’s it’s that I’m not bothered I’m seeing the world through a distance and
my emotional landscape it it chimes in with my gut reaction Jonathan hate so I
I listened to a talk recently with or I watched it online with Jonathan hate do you know his work he’s a psychologist
it sounds familiar but not particularly I’m pretty sure he’s a um a meditation
practice
people what people do is that it has as their ethical landscape is their gut
instinct it just feels wrong and that’s their ethical landscape and
then we justify them and go yeah because it’s in the Bible or it’s in in the teachings or it’s in this or yeah but
but not really because of that you know you might some of the more complex topics
so um I thought that was really interesting I feel like I’ve missed one of your
questions there what was oh yeah so yeah what is indifferent and then also so is
he saying that we should ignore our gut feelings or that we shouldn’t base
ethics on them or what what does he mean by I get how he says that they can be justified with you know religious things
after the fact I get that uh uh so so he’s really saying when you’re speaking
with someone and saying and and thinking about ethics why why do
you do that then we have to include sort of our gut instinct in the picture that it’s not
part of the reaction it’s not part it’s it’s included in
in our conversation that is we can never not be impartial like we can never we
can never be impartial that’s what I’m saying we are always partial if you like we always have a position we just don’t
realize it and yeah so so that’s what I’m saying yeah this is this is really important uh
especially and this ties back to what we’re talking about earlier how some people say it’s all about wisdom but you
know in in the Buddhist teachings right it’s it’s Sela sabadipanya and so Sila
is the ethics and samadhi is the meditation practices and then panya prajnan’s answer is is wisdom and so
it’s these three things that we’re we’re cultivating and yeah that that’s right the gut instinct uh or the you know gut
feelings and everybody has an agenda I have an agenda that’s as soon as we can realize that that we all have an agenda
if we if you don’t then there’s probably a slimy blob on the couch and then even then you have an agenda to to to be a
slimy blob slimy yeah you know to maintain my sliminess or whatever but
yeah it’s it’s a really good point and so with that known what is the best agenda we can have you know what I think
curiosity that’s where I look at yeah and being open-minded I think is um is
really key to all all this because if I’m if I’m not open and willing to consider something else especially
something I don’t really agree with or don’t even find Value in then I at least need to be open-minded to it because it
once I’m shut down then there’s really no room for growth or change or or anything to even consider anything so
it’s just like a completely shut down thing a closed down thing and there’s really no opportunity for growth or
significant skillful change at that point so that’s why it’s and that’s why there’s this open inquiry this doctrine
of open inquiry too looking into things investigating things finding out things
and the one the only really way to do that is have an open mind and listen and hear yeah yeah and and I think it’s not
only about growth but it’s a to me you know I’ve I’ve long
pondered What is love you know what what is it when we feel loved what does that mean
and you love ice cream right well I think it’s that
I I feel that when I’m with someone they really get what I’m talking about they
care about they have taken pains to understand and what it is that I care
about and they’ve taken on board something that is important to me
so even with somebody who is very against me so to speak or who has very
different ideas to me to me it’s not so much about growth
but about feeling that
I am reaching them in a way that they can feel that they are loved so to me
that’s that’s the Dharma and to stop so my habit is to shut down the
mind so how do I not shut down the body and mind so that’s it yeah
it’s oops it’s really beautiful Wendy um one
of the best definitions I heard is tricky because it seems like the more I talk about love the less of a service
that does it just because of me and you know but the one of the best definitions I’ve heard of it is love demonstrates
it’s a demonstration not an explanation so love demonstrates and it’s a tricky
word because you know I love ice cream oh I love to do this it’s kind of been polluted a little bit but those who
really find it a value they tune into what the the the what’s really behind that word and the
the useful part of that word the you know where it really touches something deep inside and stirs and then that’s
where this um notion when I’m talking about it but it’s a demonstration and if
that it doesn’t have to be an outwardly thing either like Wendy’s talking about it’s just
kind of being seen and known and and touched and yeah it’s uh it’s a really
it’s it’s a good one because it doesn’t come that natural to me you know
um and then and then especially in like a semi-public forum like this you know it’s like oh okay it’s my authentic you
know is authentic authenticity being questioned here you know what about these do this the typical red-blooded
male show love differently you know in private in public and around certain situations than others and but I at the
end of the day it just I think it’s just tuning into the heart and we just we just we kind of know or we don’t know
you know if if if this is being expressed or not and and not to beat
myself up either when when I’m I’m not at the levels that I want to be around it right
um or yeah and I don’t even know if it can it’s it’s one of these on and this is
where trying to find words for this why I really find that Brahma vihara is very helpful for this because then it’s just
like okay now I know what you’re talking about there’s there’s compassion acknowledging pain wanting it to release
you know there’s this kindness a well-wishing there’s this um this this uh being happy for other people’s
happiness rejoicing you know feeding on that instead of all the other um crappy food the world offers us to
feed on you know and then this Equanimity this this this notion of you
know um I I care deeply but I don’t need to get entangled in this right now it’s not going to do me or the other person
any good they need to make their own choices in life doesn’t mean that I don’t deeply care you know and this is
kind of more grandparently love and yeah it’s it really is a
yeah so it’s uh I don’t know I love people talking about love I just I just
kind of fall short when I try to talk about it a lot of times perhaps yeah yeah I guess I I’ve been contemplating a
lot so I started the project when I was about eight so it’s been a I’m not eight anymore so
there’s a couple of decades between then and now for sure yeah
um and then just the the artists that we have um you know in in types of music and and painting and so there’s there’s
a few things that are really beautiful displays of this but there just seems so much pain associate Associated around
love and we talked about you know these different types there’s a it’s a familial love a friendly love you know
there’s a a romantic love uh friendly love and then there’s a like this highest unconditional love and it’s
all these different flavors of it and uh yeah I I think um so that it’s
interesting and then it ties into that’s what the dharma’s about and this is this is where it turns into kalyanamita I
feel you know this this spiritual friendship this this connection between uh folks on the path uh and that’s what
it’s all about the Buddhist that was the entirety of the path relating to other people you know that
that is kind of what I to me that’s what I feel is am am I being sincere to
myself am I being sincere to the other person am I shutting myself down to
myself so I was as I was listening to you before
um I was aware of kind of this we we have a mod there’s there’s a part
of the mind that’s very judging and there’s the part of the mind that is judged
and it is it is difficult to it’s when we fall short you know of our ideal but
that is also caught in this idea I think there is something in
the west and I don’t know whether it’s different in other cultures it’s not that I think other cultures are different it’s just that I actually
don’t know enough about other cultures but there is something about I think I
think there’s something about the individualist perspective which says unless
so I have an idea of myself and unless I live up to that then I’m
not able to be included in society I’m not worthy of being part of society and
to me love in matter kind of way is
is that bridging that sense of disconnection
it really is and it’s this recognition that we talked about almost kind of
blame earlier the Buddha said the the Bliss of blamelessness yeah I know I
yeah that’s that’s it’s so then but I find myself falling back into blaming
yeah time and time again and then but then I touch into where there doesn’t really need to be blame assigned a lot
of times you know uh and it’s so Blissful in a way when there’s no blame now that doesn’t mean that they’re
wrongs in the world and that people should be held accountable for the action that’s not what I’m saying it’s
like um you know does there need to be like a person created to blame either be
it me as a person or someone else as a person you know things are unfold I know there’s causes and conditions to
everything is you know I’ll just ask the question where is it helpful and when is it not to to create you know this
someone did that to me or someone else and then they’re wrong and I’m right and
then you know so it opens up a huge um can of worms it’s just like well I like
to look at remedy and resolve around these things instead of just Justice and judgment and and It’s Tricky too because
we need this um not to confuse judgment with discernment so there’s this faculty
of the the heart and mind that that is served very well by Discerning and
knowing one thing from the other knowing how to be with something how not to be you know how to respond to something how
not to respond to yeah and but this this love of of meta and the sense of
belonging yeah it’s like it’s so helpful especially
for the sense of connection and it was really important to me at a time in my
practice but now it’s just almost like I don’t know how to disconnect there’s the
opposite where I just want to unplug for a little bit or disconnect from things
it’s just like well where can I find some Refuge from all this over connection almost you know and then what
we’re connected almost to the wrong things you know things that that don’t help us in other people and where is the
True Heart connections that that are really beneficial that really deeply nourish us and others I think that’s
that’s the sense of belonging we need and we can get that in nature especially we can get it within ourselves too and I
think the more we can give that to ourselves the more able we’re able to find that sense of belonging among
others too so and so if um I know that’s a lot but I I want to get into then how this um goes into this
definition of helplessness of anata instead of not self so I wanted to kind
of lay that out briefly but I want to give you a chance to respond to this and then maybe we’ll go into Niche Duke and
not in another way just a heads up we’ve got 10 minutes
um yeah so
my feeling about a nature duka and anata or anata
so no self is it’s one of those things that you get
when you’re in that space but the minute you come out of that space it kind of
can’t get it it’s it’s it’s hard that one and the same with impermanence I’m
not sure I’ve ever felt myself to be within a space that feels timeless
yep and that’s what this this guy is saying that those are actually wrong interpretations so Anita was conflated
with the Sanskrit word that’s it looks similar but it’s not the same word and that’s because everybody knows
everything’s in permanent right I doubt there’s hardly anybody that knows that on a cognitive level but then that
doesn’t that’s not I mean if that’s supposed to help us get enlightened there would be it seems like there would be a lot more people enlightened and
same way with um and not uh but it was yeah it was another Tran I
was confused with um this word no self but okay so what he’s actually saying um
this guy at puredamma.net if I’m understanding into my best degree that Anita is um it’s also translated as
changeable but what to me the real practical view of this in everyday life
is that arranging external conditions the way I
want them to be is not a long-term success for happiness but most of us think if we can just get
everything the way we like it get whatever we want whenever we want it and just arrange our lives okay and then
everything will go smoothly the thing is though that’s not a long-term success for happiness because we can’t control
everything in our external environment the way we want it and then when we kind of forget and think that that that it
should be like that then that’s when Duca comes in so forget that yeah we
can’t have it the way we want it we can’t arrange everything the way we want it all the time and so there’s this sense of um yeah what did he call it
with uh duka but then what what then results from that is the anata
that there’s a helplessness so I find this notion of helplessness way more
relatable and useful than a nut self because there’s all this kind of philosophical speculation that we look
at anata more as because the cause of this it kind of brings in this notion of
I I can’t I these strategies the world’s telling me for happiness they seem good
on the outside but in in real life in practicality I can’t keep that up all
the time and so when I when I can’t keep all that stuff up again yeah I feel I feel kind of devastated down like it
shouldn’t be this way and then I feel helpless because I don’t know what to do about it you know and so then sometimes I’ll get into unhealthy strategies you
know maybe like breaking the law or getting in you know doing questionable things to try to get ahead climb the
ladder at the expense of others because I feel helpless and I don’t know what to do
so just to kind of then this is where our meditation practice to bring it back into meditation
can really see This Moment by moment when when you know training the mind seeing the mind the way it does
reviewing things in our lives seeing things differently having space to open up to see this process in action and
really deeply embed it in the body and know it from the body yeah I think that’s definitely I’m just
sort of looking at the website here about you know for impermanence
so there you go so um
yeah it’s just interesting I have not anata is not no self or not self it’s uh
um yeah it’s anatma yeah
it’s huge this is a huge Revel because we’ve been in Buddhist communities I’m
not saying that stuff’s wrong it’s just like well where was this information I’m so grateful this information’s come up
and so it can be you know interwoven into the mix to explore and yeah you
look at too because it just it resonates so well with me you know that this way of knowing it and it makes sense with
all the translation challenges and and all this so yeah I definitely think it’s worth a wider audience in looking at
within the Buddhist communities I I feel and even if you’re not because I don’t still I don’t consider myself Buddhist
it just it just makes really makes a lot of sense it seems fairly skillful here yeah I mean you have to be fixed in
order to be a Buddhist you have to be fixed you have to be static well that’s right yeah and just
to me it’s not an ism to me what those teachings were is some very um loving
kind caring wise being said oh this is what I found out check it out for yourself you know don’t believe me you
have to do it you have to check into it for yourself and if it’s not you know up to Snuff then drop it and do something else yeah and this is a translation so
my understanding about what it was what what it’s just when westerners
arrived in Asian countries and they said well what is this and they’d say it’s the dhamma well who’s the person Buddha
okay so therefore it’s Buddhism because you needed to contrast it with Christianity or Islam or Judaism so it’s
a it’s again a poor translation yeah it has nothing to do with religion
as far as I’m concerned you know it’s a to me the way I look is it’s a deep investigation into reality the most
skillful ways possible you know the the best way to going about that and the best way of going about that is kind of
with a kind open heart you know uh to to view and respond to reality why we’re
investigating what is this dreamlike nature that we’re in and how do we see how we best see it and how do we best
respond to it you know for our own happiness and for the happiness of everyone around us and all beings yeah
yeah yeah I mean what it does say so Iris
raised in a family where I had to get the correct answer and if you didn’t have the correct answer
you know it was a lesson in humiliation so
um what I’ve what I have learned with the dhamma has been that
there is no correct answer there is no definitive correct answer
for everything and it’s very culturally overlaid
there’s no everyone is subjective except me so everyone is subjective
um yeah that that it’s that we are never not within
I guess the the Dumber at some level but separate from it as well
this is this is a really good point because there is truth there’s this saying that and I talked to Arjun omro
about this whatever we think the truth is it’s always other than that so it’s
always kind of a loose it’s there but it’s just like okay you know it’s like
we can’t talk in absolute truths but that doesn’t mean that to me that
doesn’t mean that truth doesn’t exist absolute truth doesn’t exist it’s just not formatted for our everyday life as far
as a cut and dry definitive thing as far as the ultimate truth now there’s things that are
yeah two plus two still equals four in most relative yeah that’s right yeah
right yeah yeah so that that it’s right it’s it’s to bring this Dynamic into and
investigate it and see what is this all about well I think we’re coming up we’ve got
two minutes to go so what final wise words from Josh coming in from cardigan
in Wales and I am wearing a cardigan so I am very happy about that
the old joke uh I forgot what movie it was the pull the cop was pull over pull over oh thanks for noticing but it’s
actually a cardigan yeah tell me the wisdom AB crashed it
said something went wrong so I’m interested in seeing how um how much that went around and uh thanks for
anyone that joined us on the YouTube live and on wisdom and uh and enjoy if
you’re listening to this later too um now the the next month since I’m going to be at Monastery I don’t know
for sure if I’ll be more than likely won’t be able to do in one next month so it’ll have to be you know at least until
probably mid-july or later July and we may or may not catch up for June one
we’ll we’ll see but if again anybody that has questions uh please you know
write in any ideas comments that’s good Wendy yeah I think
Dave if it’s something uh so yeah Thursday the 29th we’re
booked in so see if that comes to anything otherwise we’ll just do it another day and we’ll figure it all out
as we go on the fly as for you that’s right with technical equipment that may or may not work
yeah that that’s right and I plan to be back in Denmark for that one so that’s the plan 29th and I’ve got what’s it 9
A.M British summer time for that which will be 10 Central or 10 central
European I guess I’ve got that at
it oh no no let’s just um I’ll just I’ll adjust it to 4 P.M Brisbane time then no
it’s actually better for me to move it to okay 5 30. so I’m gonna send it to a
new time and we’ll just do that on That’s Thursday the 29th of June
yes Thursday or no no no June I’m gonna be I’m sorry I’m looking at the wrong one here no June I’m going to be in I’m
going to be in the monastery okay um so I I my bad no you didn’t tell me and I kept it in there all right so
we’ll go into it so we’ll have to we’ll have to do it July the 27th and I’ll move it to 5 30.
okay okay so so 5 30 July 27th it’s been time cool as of now there we are we
figured it out all right Josh have a great month enjoy
your honest monastic life how beautiful is that well I’m about to find out right ah
beautiful all right Wendy good good take care be well bye bye now
Integrating Presence 
52 thoughts on “Language: Meaning, Interpretation And Impartiality | May 25, 2023 “Meditation Q & A With Wendy Nash” #09”