For this fourteenth installment of the ongoing live series with Wendy Nash inquiring into meditation practice on and off the cushion we undertake a special and abbreviated (laden with technical challenges) Thanksgiving edition mostly about appreciation and gratitude
(Ways to) join these Q & A’s when they happen live:
- via downloading the free Wisdom app in your app store or via: https://wisdom.audio where I’m @integratingpresence or https://joinwisdom.audio/integratingpresence
- watch on my YouTube channel
*There’s naturally an ongoing open call for meditation (related) questions for the (roughly) monthly “Meditation Q & A” either by the various social media means listed; integratingpresence[at]protonmail.com or just showing to type/ask live.*
Background
Regular, current and past visitors to Integrating Presence may recall the monthly series “Ask Us Anything” I did with Denny K Miu from August 2020 until January 2022 — partially including and continuing on with Lydia Grace as co-host for awhile until March 2022.
For a few months thereafter I did various Insight Timer live events exploring potential new directions and/or a continuation of the Ask Us Anything format while weaving in other related teachings to these events.
Then, after chats with meditation coach Wendy Nash, it became clear to start a new collaboration similar to “Ask Us Anything” simply and clearly called “Meditation Q & A” especially due to the original intent of the Ask Us Anything’s being “discussions about meditation and related topics.”
Past chats with Wendy:
Audio: Gratitude | November 23, 2023 “Meditation Q & A With Wendy Nash” #14
Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
so let’s just start Wendy how’s it going
today how are
you yeah good so as you know I’m I’m
actually a little bit tired I’m I’m
happy I’ve had some great connections
but I’m I’m a little bit tired as you
know I’ve got a community movement as my
engaged Dharma
practice and so that involves a lot of
networking and networking meetings and
and there’s a lot of them at the moment
for Christmas parties so I’ve just done
quite a few and and I’m going oh I just
need a bit of time out but I’ve made
some great connections and it’s it’s
really good because there’s been so much
positive Vive and that’s really nice to
be a part of to be part of a a lot of
people who are actually in positions of
power who say what you’re doing is great
and just because you’re in a position of
power doesn’t mean to say you can change
everything so they appreciate my efforts
to make some changes and and see what’s
possible so it’s great well very good
news it seems H yeah these things can be
very tiring and trying sometimes but
they can also be very rewarding and it
sounds like just the sheer amount of
things you’re doing with that it’s just
GNA eventually get tired you know unless
you’re a superwoman or something right
so yeah that’s
it so yeah we’re GNA talk about
gratitude go ahead yes
and uh just a teaser for next time we’re
going to keep this one short to 30
minutes since it is Thanksgiving day
here in the United States and initially
the family planed to show up and and
celebrate tomorrow but I got a surprise
today when everybody showed up so it it
still still should work out very small
rule connection here from a satellite
body connection but I’m grateful that
this technology works I mean it’s really
amazing that I’m sitting here in R
Missouri talking to Wendy who is in
Australia wow it’s it’s uh quite
something and yeah gratitude so
definitely grateful for that um Wendy
what is the I want to what does this
mean to you what does a gratitude mean
to you and is it different from
thankfulness you know I’m I’m a bit of a
I I actually don’t like the word
gratitude um and I don’t like the
Gratitude movement there you are it’s a
very controversial statement find that
often it’s a bit aligned with a bit
aligned with the Positive Thinking
movement and Al quite aligned with um
sort of more doing I’m going to be
gratitude for what I’ve got I’m I need
to be and I should and I’m going to
think happy and I’m going to think it’s
all amazing and the truth is it’s often
rubbish you know like it’s life is
really tough you know it’s really
difficult and so I I take a different
approach I’m much more about not looking
for yes I’ve got a safe house and yes
I’ve got you know a loving family I and
and all of that is true and that’s not
to negate the the joy that I I
experience from having that but I don’t
find that gratitude is the mechanism
that works for me for me what I like is
I like to just whenever anybody does
anything that makes me feel at ease in a
very small way I I just say thank you so
if my partner does the dishes or Cooks
me dinner or buys me something buys food
at the supermarket or feeds the cat or
any brings me a cup of tea or um a
friend texts me and says ask for help
and I’m able to provide that that our
connection I appreciate and I just allow
it to those those moments to PO I pause
a moment and I allow them to land on my
heart and I allow them to sink into my
well-being so that’s my take I’m just
not really big on the I’m going to be
grateful for you know the horrible
things that happen to me because I’m a
better person for it I just that’s just
not my
bag this is great Wendy I love this and
just so you know you cut out a little
bit uh verbally but I was able to piece
it most together um and this you talk
about appreciation and this is lovely
and I I it’s really refreshing what you
said that you just don’t immediately go
on board with these things without any
kind of questioning without any kind of
reflection or contemplation and you have
a really good point about there’s this
toxic posit uh positivity thing going on
sometimes um and I like how you talk
about appreciation and this is really
what what all that points to to me is
authenticity right we’re not trying to
generate something fake and then pretend
it’s something that’s not just because
somebody says we’ll be better off for it
I think this is the key when we talk
about these types of practices or
Reflections or Explorations that they’re
authentic you know um now I want to
throw something in though on the other
end and just go off the deep end of the
the other side of it in this notion of
what if I could be grateful for
everything you know um it’s a really
challenging thing now I’ve talked about
this story before I think it’s from Gil
frell’s book a monastery within where
this um younger woman goes to a
monastery and she wants to ordain but
turns out
before she can her sister dies and and
leaves a kid behind and now she has to
become the primary caretaker of this
child and if I’m getting this right in
paraphrasing of course and and she goes
back to the abis and tells her this and
she can’t ordain and she says well now
your practice is to be grateful for
everything in a way it sounds really
ridiculous but in another way it’s like
okay well where’s this you know this
Silver Lining if if I had to exercise my
perception you know what of worth can be
found in this that I’m just not making
it up you know so the easy kind of
blanket statement is um what is this
trying to teach me is it trying to teach
me anything is it trying to test me on
anything or I like this notion of what
weakness is this helping me
strengthen so these are some interesting
kind of radical Notions that’s on one
end and I like Wendy’s notion that um
yeah it’s it’s something something where
you know it needs to be authentic and it
has to be practical in our everyday
lives so yeah pick up on this Wendy what
do you um do you have anything to add to
this I think it’s really good I you know
and I appreciate you your take which is
about authenticity which I hadn’t really
thought about but um that that is the
really I mean that’s the thing about the
whole Dharma practice and uh I I think
it’s very interesting the idea that
things don’t always work out the way you
want them to but what can you take from
every
situation to include that which is
painful and difficult like the the aunt
who suddenly has to care for the
child um and what can you do to say this
is this there’s something I can learn
here here and that that I think is
really good and and that doesn’t negate
the challenge of it suddenly becoming
the care of a small child or a baby or
you know that’s a big job and that’s one
that many women are left to carry um and
you know much more than men you know if
if men had to care for all the all the
all the children I think that that
Financial priorities would quickly
change as a society so but taking on
board that um what
what what can I learn what is difficult
and I think in that is somewhere
saying sometimes I’m not going to be
able to get it right but I’m going to
see if I can do something good and the
to the best of my ability but I it’s
kind of okay to fail to yes I totally
well you know and that’s another way
these these working with perceptions
here you know um the way we see things
is really really important and I think
there’s levels of views and perceptions
that are helpful in one time in our
lives and then those can drop away for
other ones but you know this this notion
of what we can learn
is then also where’s the opportunity for
Mastery because learning is a lifelong
process and I I’m not saying don’t learn
but it really never ends but there is a
point when we can Master things too um
but that’s kind of a different
discussion but what came to mind if if
the men were caring for all the children
I couldn’t help but think of Lord of the
Flies where it just turns into absolute
disaster of of you know competition and
uh yeah yeah Hunger Game scen scario or
something yes uh I I’m sorry but maybe
I’m too oldfashioned but yes a feminine
value is definitely the Cornerstone of
raising children I mean that just seems
like common sense to me maybe I’m maybe
that’s too politically incorrect but of
course we all have masculine and
feminine traits as well um yeah the
other thing that comes to mind around
gratitude or appreciation is this is
something where we can’t really be in
Conflict if we’re appreciating something
right the other ways are Beauty if we
find beauty in something it’s really
hard to be in conflict with it and
serving if I’m serving someone or
serving myself or serving whatever I
seem to be in conflict with it seems to
take away any kind of conflict of course
again as long as it is with
authenticity you know um so I’m trying
to think of yeah I just pass it over to
Wendy here
again okay so you know it was
interesting as you were speaking I guess
I’m going to ask you one question and
but I’ll talk and then you can answer
answer my question one is well you’ve
now moved countries you’ve moved to
Denmark and you don’t your Visa isn’t
you know you can’t live there as a
permanent resident so you’re in the UK
and you’re in different countries and
now you’re back in the US and you’re
you’re popping all over the place and
there’s a certain wear and tear in that
sort of lifestyle that you can never
rest down and that is exhausting and so
I want to ask you can you gain gratitude
or thankfulness or appreciation in in
that space so I just while I’m going to
put that to you while I continue on and
you can answer that in a sec I I guess
what do I think about conflict and
things I think what what my sense of
appreciation is that it gives me
more uh I guess a capacity to balance
because I’ve got this community movement
to increase the travel options for
people in my town because about one in
two people can’t drive and really we’re
in a first world country and there is
almost no bus service and the foot paths
are pretty negligible you know pretty
haphazard uh we’re in the ninth centile
for social disadvantage across the
country um and there are no bike paths
so there’s there’s lots of stuff what I
would say is that what thankfulness does
or appreciation does for me in that
space is it helps nourish me so that I
don’t burn out and it also means that I
I have the compassion I feel
sufficiently nourished by that
experience but I also have drive it it
really you know keeps me going to speak
with people who are in power who to
write letters to be inspired
to go we have to care for the community
so that it is it conflict I’m not sure
I’m not sure it’s that far from conflict
but it’s not obvious conflict but it’s
not passive I think that’s what I’m
saying it has a very strong energy of
love and
compassion and that’s that is a big
driver to how you create change but you
don’t change without a lot of
frustration and getting people to change
their perspectives but if you do it in a
combative way that’ll never work so I
guess that asked the question do you
mean conflict or combat I wasn’t anyway
maybe that’s what we can talk about for
another time because we’re talking
gratitude here but my question is how
have you
managed um the process of living in
Denmark the Visa difficulties learning a
new culture a new language all those
those sides of things and
Incorporated thankfulness gratitude
appreciation whichever version you use
in your daily life in that
circumstance um unfortunately the kid
but whatever I was able to piece
together of globe trotting lifestyle
that I’m doing now or semi right and I
wonder if I can just defer this to
potentially other show
and we can then add in
gratitude um portion of that but I think
Wendy has been all over the world too
and I think there’s a a decent enough
interest to do a show perhaps
surrounding this topic of uh like Nomad
ship um living in new cultures adapting
to new cultures or not this is a ripe
thing and I’m talking to so many people
and I’m doing this so about about who
are interested in all this stuff and I’m
doing this so late in life too as well
and there gets to be added challenges
with legalities and financial things and
is it fidu no whatever whatever the term
is for marriage and relationships
internationally too so I think maybe we
could do that uh at some point now as
far as the conflict thing what I meant
by that is you know if I’m in conflict
with someone one or not necessarily even
conflict you know if I don’t like
something or
I I’m against something um or just
having a hard time a negative time well
not necessarily negative but you know
I’m not seeing things eye to eye and I
want something to be different than it
is or I don’t want it to be that way um
struggling basically so but if I can be
authentically
grateful um and find appreciation
somehow in either the whole situation
either it would be with the other or
myself or what’s happening or maybe what
it’s trying to teach me or any kind of
thread through it at all if there’s an
authentic appreciation or gratitude or
thankfulness and whatever it may be then
it’s hard for me at the same time to be
both um grateful
appreciative thankful for something and
at the same time be against it or don’t
see any value in it don’t want it to be
that way right so it it automatically I
don’t know about automatically but it
seems to bring things in harmony quite a
bit right but again it can’t be forced
or pretended I mean it can be and maybe
that’s a little bit better but you know
fakeness I never recommend fakeness or
um falsehoods or deception things like
that I don’t find very very helpful um
and said the alternative can be okay I
acknowledge where I’m at now this
freaking sucks I don’t like it I want it
to be different and at the same time can
I Aspire I can potentially see the
benefit of finding something worthwhile
in this you know finding something I can
appreciate in it and even though I’m not
there yet can I work towards that um or
see what happens when I open up to
finding appreciation and gratitude and
something I normally wouldn’t think of
about being you know the whole practice
people do gratitude journals and things
like this uh I think it’s a lot of times
it’s just an
acknowledgement uh that’s where it
starts acknowledgement and that’s a big
weight towards compassion
too okay well I’m gonna throw it back to
Wendy here we’ve got about according to
the clock on my end on this mobile
browser like six minutes left so Wendy
take take the take it away
here yeah I I think what we’re both
speaking to is becoming aware of things
that perhaps we may
Overlook that is part of this larger
network of of our participation in
life that are
nourishing but maybe we are always
overlooking that because we spend our
time focusing on what’s not working
because that’s more physically painful
you know when you’re frustrated that has
a physical side of things and I do think
it is really helpful
to know spend time noticing things that
are make your life easier make yourself
happier you know I I love my partner
he’s a beautiful man and I love the
house we have and but it did take me
time I found the house we lived in we
live in is really big and I found it
kind of a little bit lonely or something
for a while there and the garden was
really big and you know it’s a lot of
Maintenance and a lot of cleaning and I
found it pretty overwhelming for a while
but I guess with time I grew to
appreciate what is good here but that
only happened when I vocalized things
that I didn’t like and then and comp
paired it with where I thought it was
better and then I was able to go yeah
but on the scale of it it was it is
better here and then I started to feel
that it was more my place and
more what I wanted but there is a really
important role I think I think I heard a
saying once it’s you you can’t say yes
until you say no so I think often it’s
really important to say no I’m not happy
with that no I don’t like that and then
go okay well what else is here that I
might have missed that is good and
that’s it’s looking at a the the whole
picture not just the good the bad but
everything else too so I think that’s
what we’re we’re speaking to that it’s
um there’s a it’s a complex thing to be
S and it’s important to be sincere and
just and notice what what is here
actually that’s that’s kind of it I
suppose that’s what I would
say is um whatever’s
going in our lives too we can either
reference points from the past we have
it as a reference point then we we get
to have it as a reference point the
other thing is this look looking around
our immediate environment and the things
where we are and what can we appreciate
about that too right what is um useful
and worthwhile to notice uh about our
immediate environment and then how far
do we want to stretch beyond that um to
derive benefit from it the other thing
is yes what we pay attention to we give
energy to this is a another teaching
that my likes to use right where
attention goes energy flows so if we’re
constantly paying attention to something
that’s not helpful all the time we’re
going to be amplifying that but if we’re
paying attention to something that is
helpful and skillful and wise we’re
going to be giving more energy and
inclining the mind towards that training
the Mind towards that you know what are
we abiding in and Wendy’s a big
practitioner of loving
kindness you know this is a way to
cleanse the heart to brighten the heart
and just um get rid of ill will and I’m
coming up on 30 minutes here so I’m
gonna give Wendy some kind of the last
words here and have her take us
out I think you know everybody is where
they are and yeah you can I think
sincerity is and is is key and when
you’re sincere your natural disposition
of love and kindness Compassion Care joy
and peace comes forward but you just
need to kind of be where you are and
then it will naturally arise and again I
want to say I’m grateful for Wendy
bearing through with this as it’s been a
little bit of a disjointed communication
on my part because I haven’t been able
to hear her due to technical
difficulties the 100% like I normally do
so I’m very grateful for Wendy um
sticking with me for this abbreviated
session and um plan on having
potentially better connection next time
and definitely the time after that so
going to say um thank you for anyone
listening to this in the United States
and Beyond and yeah if you have a chance
drop in leave a comment and tell us how
you feel about gratitude what’s your
take on this notion and anything else uh
Wendy and I have talked about so Wendy
thanks again for doing
this my pleasure it’s always good and
it’s always good to practice with that
which is a
challenge oh absolutely and uh stay
tuned for next time where we plan to
talk about our Retreat experiences and
this is really important to any serious
meditation practitioners in my humble
opinion so until then um be well and uh
yeah keep um assessing gratitude I guess
all right bye now
Integrating Presence 
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