In this twenty-ninth installment of the ongoing live series with Wendy Nash — where we delve into meditation practice both on and off the cushion — we focus on the relational aspects of partners, teams, and communities. Recently, it seems we’ve been somewhat overlooking the more meditative dimensions of our chosen topics. While this episode posed some challenges with how to directly integrate with formal meditation, since relationships influence every aspect of life, we’ll still explored how meditation practice impacts our interactions with partners, teams, and communities—and how these, in turn, affect our practice. We examined how these dynamics can run in tandem, come into conflict, or complement, support, and enhance one another. Other topics include: stereotypes in relationships; eyes open and eyes closed meditation; benefits of spacial awareness and widening visual perception; leading/facilitating meditation sessions in less than ideal environments and conditions; how most of our experiences with teams is not usually mutually chosen and consented to organically; how receiving feedback well helps with giving good feedback; conversationally understanding and inquiring into care; and we run out of time before mentioning much about communities but still touch on several aspects
*There’s naturally an ongoing open call for meditation (related) questions for the (roughly) monthly “Meditation Q & A” either by the various social media means listed; integratingpresence[at]protonmail.com or just showing to type/ask live.*
Background
Regular, current and past visitors to Integrating Presence may recall the monthly series “Ask Us Anything” I did with Denny K Miu from August 2020 until January 2022 — partially including and continuing on with Lydia Grace as co-host for awhile until March 2022.
For a few months thereafter I did various Insight Timer live events exploring potential new directions and/or a continuation of the Ask Us Anything format while weaving in other related teachings to these events.
Then, after chats with meditation coach Wendy Nash, it became clear to start a new collaboration similar to “Ask Us Anything” simply and clearly called “Meditation Q & A” especially due to the original intent of the Ask Us Anything’s being “discussions about meditation and related topics.”
Past chats with Wendy:
Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)
Unedited transcript via YouTube:
hey hold us welcome this is Josh integrating presence.com and I’m joined
again with Wendy Nash of crap.com Wendy what’s going on today well I’m calling
from Gabby Gabby country in Queensland in kulture um what’s going on it’s hot it’s
summer so it’s the end of the year I’m just about to get the YouTube so I just need to turn off the mute there so um so
I we have the mute we have YouTube on by the way so if you a listener would like to ask us a question you just fire away
and it comes up we’ll get it so right we’ll try and we’ll try not to mention
platform names so I won’t have to do as much editing for the insight timer version when I when I do that because
anytime I say YouTube I have to edit it out anytime I mention a title anyway
it’s it’s it’s all part of it and on last plug here instagram.com why we’re
so get all the editing done here at the beginning for the version all right so
whatever platform you’re you’re meeting us with we just love your questions so
far away we often get some good questions some really interesting ones and and how do we do that and left us
like I never think of those questions so that’s great they are all right so this
is our TW I’m just going to read the intro I have written here um this is the 29th installment of the ongoing live
series with Wendy Nash where we delve into meditation practice both on and off the cushion in this one we plan to focus
on the relational aspects of Partners teams and communities recently it seems uh we’ve
been somewhat overlooking the more meditative dimensions of our chosen topics while this episode May pose
unique challenges in how to directly integrate with formal meditation uh since relationships
influence every aspect of our life though we’ll still aim to attempt exploring how meditation practice
impacts our interactions with Partners teams and communities and how these in
turn affect our practice we’ll examine how these Dynamics can run in tandem uh
come in conflict or complement support and enhance one another so kind of a
little bit of a fancy language there but we all know that relationships are everything in our lives uh I think women
in general if I can use this old outdated term are way better at relationships than men in general and
value them more uh how maybe not I
I I actually uh have a bit of a question
about that there’s a lot of assumption that that guys are that that women are better at relationships than than men
and I’m not sure that’s entirely true I’m not convinced okay well let’s let’s jump
into that why do you what makes you say that well it’s not really about meditation but certainly during
meditation a lot of the complicated relationships that I have are with
women yeah I didn’t say they were easy I didn’t say it was easy but what I’m saying is there’s this
idea that women are better at relationships than men oh I see yeah and so I’m questioning whether that’s
actually true because I know a lot of really sensitive thoughtful
guys and they’re heaps better at relationships than a lot of the women uh
I know and also Better Than I Used to Be before I took up meditation and learned how to be nice
person well these are really good points Wendy uh yeah the these are stereotypes right and first off I’m trying to figure
out how to go full screen with this and I can’t that’s why I’m a little bit not fully present CH I tell you what I’ll
I’ll I’ll keep going and you try and figure out the tech there in the background how about that sure sure all
right so I I was thinking as as you were reading out about this
what are we actually going to cover because it’s true we don’t often talk about formal meditation practice but
instead what meditation practice does and it gives you but as you’re now in a
relationship a full-time relationship whatever that means particularly as you go back and forth because of you know
your Visa issues but I’m in a full-time relationship now and I wasn’t always you know we’ve only been together for four
and a half years or something and when I’ve I’ve had really solid practice and then I’ve met somebody and actually my
relationship has my meditation has dwindled but in this relationship
actually it’s it has lessened but I now meditate with my partner and that makes
a huge difference because we start with with the meditation then how was your
sit and that helps us to talk about any issues that are arising between us and
it just does it when it’s really small when it’s a little niggle rather than when it’s a big cabang so the senses of
resentment are less likely to arise so it feels cleaner so just that side of
things how that’s one side of formal s meditation practice that I think is
something to navigate when you’re in a relationship not quite what you’ve put here on the thing but what do you think
you’re now in relationship so how have you found it yeah this is uh really there’s a lot of stuff here to cover so
we’ve got U the generality I started off with um and meditation in in Intimate
Relationships um and there’s a whole distinction of Partners I usually when we think of relationships we just think
of an intimate right long maybe potentially long-term um one with our
beloved you know this is kind of what the word relationship has come to mean
and I want to mean it also in the broader sense and especially with Partners you know it could be just you
know a platonic Business Partnership things like this but I’ll come back to that since you you ask and address um so
yeah before I jump into the generalizations I started off with you know when it comes to my meditation
practice and my beloved my my partner you know my fiance um you know we don’t
together a lot of time sometimes we will and a lot of times uh she’ll ask how my meditation went and um there’s a lot of
things to to share sometimes you know that that come up and just about in general how practice is and then some of
her work how it relates meditation um in general and how um meditation practiced
in the past has helped um I guess open a lot of Vistas and doorways to where she
is now even though she doesn’t have a strict kind of formal meditation practice like I do and and using the
kind of confines and parameters I do but when we do yeah it’s it is quite a
lovely thing as well um I am fairly dedicated to my practice so it’s a
little bit unusual that there’s really no compromise I mean that it’s helped me so much in my life that that’s it’s a
huge priority in my life and she supports that and I’m very grateful for that and in in turn it helps me U be
more supportive of her and us as well uh just in so many ways um okay so back to
the the generalities um yeah actually I I want to I want to
change that and say maybe women have more challenges and at relationships
while men um they you know they don’t take it as seriously and put as much time and effort maybe that women maybe
because it’s not that big a deal but men tend to be more challenged I think on the um on their career
maybe they they just put more emphasis this now I’m talking older Generations here I guess too now the younger
Generations I would agree with you Wendy that um tend to be kind of more
sensitive and relationally attuned than than older generation I’m thinking the boomer generation here too where the
typical stereotype there is um just kind of you know maybe coming out of the
hippie movement and I don’t know how helpful these generalizations and classifications are but but anyway you
know I just hear about business and things like that so I guess it’s it’s not and uh so I think yeah maybe it’s
maybe these are old outdated and uh things like this so but but what I want
to emphasize here is how important relationships are too and relationships to ourselves as well but in this context
we’re we’re talking about Partnerships here and so I want to also talk about I
know people really love this juicy thing of intimate Partnerships and relationships and people really eat that
up and there ‘s a lot of room for improvement and we it’s hard to find Role Models actually in this space so I
think it is important I also think it’s important to look at Partnerships other ways too like you know in in the Work
World um how are are Partnerships in the work world and um you know how could
they benefit from kind of more meditative practices as well um what
what other kind of Partnerships we have we talk about Partnerships between organizations too you know uh or
businesses we partner with if we’re like entrepreneurs or solopreneurs um you know so
proprietorships and we partner like I had someone from a university reach out to me from uh in Scotland uh and they
found my work and they they’re interested in working with me so might be doing kind of a partnership with that
and so yeah how do we um how do we relate to our partners and Partnerships
um and how should we have a doorway in here you know or like is there like some
general advice I think or things to look out for I’m wondering
yeah yeah so I actually I want to talk about today I was teaching a class and
it was at University of the third age and which is it’s it’s very cheap
um how do I univers yeah well it’s it’s a it’s an
organization where people like in when you’re in your 50s and older you volunteer your time and you teach a
course so it could be French it could be knitting it could be crocher it could be woodwork it could be bike riding it
could be anything it depends on what the teacher is going to offer so I offered mindfulness but the class before me was
crochet and one of the ladies I said oh I’m sorry I’ve got to help you you know
it’s time to back up because I’m going to be teaching mindfulness and one of the ladies came up to me and she said what’s
mindfulness so I said well you know that when you’re in a bit of a knot in your
mind and you just need a little bit of a distance and you want to create space around that it just helps you to kind of
calm down and she sort of was going oh no I’m very calm and then she said oh no
when I do karate she said her 7s 60s 7s when I do karate I’m white as anything
and so I said okay so when you’re like level one level two whatever she’s doing
and she I said just look to the sides of the room doesn’t matter what you’re doing because she’s going is karate
anything like mindfulness and so I said well it’s kind
of a little bit so I said when you’re when you’re in the room just look to the
side of the room and that’ll help you calm down and so just talking about
meditation for noral practice so that is a practice that I I do in the meditation
you’ve mentioned this before it’s great yes yeah and she just went ah and so I’m
hoping she’ll turn up because only one person turned up to my class so I might get two next week so I’m very optimistic
I 100% increase what can I say but then I had just to continue with that then I
had um the next person who was in my class and she wanted she was getting
really angry with driving and things like that so her Rel she she wanted her
husband actually had died a few years earlier and so she was trying to figure out well she’s got to she’s decided she
wants to sell her house and move into a retirement village and she wants to be a
bit calmer she’s a bit bit less anxious she’s having to navigate changes in her relationships with her
children um and her husband who’s now died but that doesn’t mean to say he’s
he’s not a part of her life and then the community and and all these different
people and how it all comes together and yeah so there’s been a lot of change so
when I was what I did when when we started the meditation the actual meditation part is I did that thing to
kind of calm her down and to place her in the room I do these kind of ways to introduce that space
and it was really useful because it helped her place her body mind in the
room so we were in a relationship there’s two of us in the room a whole lot of four extra
chairs and few two of us in the room and because of this sort of placement you
know sort of movement it was able to she felt really secure and was quite noisy
outside the people were chatting in the next room and then you know Dave comes on hey I I’m going oh no this is
terrible but she was really able to focus actually
so she she really got a huge amount from it
so and and just calmed her down immensely so I think that is all formal
practice I’m you know I’m guiding her through the meditation throughout but
she said she was able to was what was the word she said bit intrusive with the
sound but then she was able to just it was able to recede actually quite quickly so in in
terms of relationship looking at it from a more General perspective there she has a senior role
in the in the u3a group and she could have been really
irritated with the people who were in the room next door or the guy outside or
whatever but instead she was able to really harness something about the
mindful you know being mindful here and she just got it you know she
loved it that’s beautiful Wendy and uh it reminds me of what this does uh
meditation is it it changes our relationship to ourselves and our surroundings and then that really has no
other choice but to not bleed over but then influence everyone we come around
when we start relating to ourselves and our environment differently are in um improved aspects then everyone benefits
that we come in contact with and I love this practice because we’re so I think conditioned in habitually relate to the
world through the visual senses and usually we’re either conditioned or maybe I don’t know if this is a natural
aspect of Consciousness is to focus on one object to focus on an object and a lot of times it’s in the mind mind right
and so what this does is this practice it immediately draws us out of this Con
contracted state of visually focusing on one object like I mean just for instance I just kind of focusing on the screen in
windy here and as soon as she mentioned that that’s an option to widen the visual field I got drawn out of that
tight constricted narrowed thing that I wasn’t even really aware that I was doing right and it it’s kind of like uh
disrupts the system in a way and said oh wow so much more is available immediately just by noticing we have
peripheral vision and so that I Consciousness then immediately becomes apparent and oh hey wow I’m relating to
the world visually that’s mainly how I’m experiencing the world so much and we don’t even realize that we’re actually
seeing we’re just focused on what what we’re seeing not that actually seeing is happening right and so then that Gres
into a greater thing of space right so we notice the space usually we’re focused on objects but we don’t really
pay attention to the space that they’re in or surrounding or we do just kind of momentarily so we can
Orient ourselves to another object so when we do this you know it’s it’s it’s a really great practice especially for
those who don’t have immediate access to deeper levels of the body too then we can notice oh hey this is a meat suit in
a in a space here and yeah I’m navigating 3D reality in this thing and I not really even aware of that either
most of the time but this brings us into that not notice of that and then and
then because we we move around in this meat suit and relate with people in the real world uh in the body right and so
that poses another challenge when people are doing more interactions and spending more times in front of a screen then
it’s a virtual world so to speak it’s it’s in the mind and so that is a whole
another um ball ball game I guess of how we’re relating to people online because
it is more in the mind you know because usually it just takes fingers or Voice
or whatever we’re doing online and it’s it’s mind driven and the space uh the
physical space gets neglected and the body gets neglected and so yeah so all
this can help us at least uh become more and more aware
attuned mindful of first location of where our Partnerships are happening our
teams our communities are they virtual are they online are they in the real world um you know how much awareness do
we have how much kind of do we need and I think the answer to that is there can never be enough mindfulness you know um
and then how are we relating how are we seeing this how are we viewing and then
you know how are we responding to what we’re doing and of course where is our
attenion uh and how are we relating you know like
are we choosing to have our attention go somewhere or someone else choosing our attention and you know
how how helpful is this either way whether I have the illusion of I’m
choosing where my the attention goes or someone else is kind of choosing for me and then how am I with that so these are
all kind of questions to consider from time to time yeah yeah yeah as you were
saying that a couple of things came to mind do you meditate with your eyes open or closed a little bit of both um
traditionally more with the closed but then um open towards the end the last
few minutes open and yeah I I’ve had discussions about this too and we we have as well and uh yeah during the Zin
practice that I was doing you know traditionally that’s done with eyes open I was still doing that with eyes closed
at some point but overall more eyes open than usual and yeah of course this is
helpful because we we relate to the world with our eyes open however you can
go deeper with eyes closed sometimes so there’s there’s pros and cons to each
approach and remind me of your take on this again Wendy oh I I tried the eyes
open but I’ve got such a crazy mind that I just it goes all over the place I just
have to be ey shut but I trained my husband to um for him to have his eyes
open and so I look over and I see he’s got his eyes open so I just wondering
he’s he’s a very still gentle character so well this is this is this is interest
go ahead no so it’s easier for him to to be let it’s he’s he just finds he gets
stimulated by the world but he’s able to regulate that more effectively than I am where I’m always like taking it in it’s
like ah sork squark squark I think this is a good thing to point out because if we’re kind of
overwhelmed by external stimuli then closing the eyes I find is helpful
however if if I’m then overwhelmed by internal stimuli meaning the mind is kind of restless and keep going on and
on and bouncing from this topic to another past the future planning you know ideas Cog cognition then I find
actually opening the eyes a little bit it’s like oh wait a second there’s a floor right there okay floor oh that’s
kind of calm that’s not too theoretic iCal or in the past or in the future you know okay that’s all it is that’s kind
of boring but it’s the mind will kind of quiet down but you know other times I’m just like I just want to shut it all out
for a while I’ve been my eyes are burning I’ve been looking at things all day it’s just ah I can just re release
and relax into kind of a blank slate in a way you know or lighter rizing things
like this so yeah it kind of depends on the you know the what’s needed I think
yeah yeah the other thing I wondered about so we’ve talked about relating to
people in in our relationships so today when I was teaching this class and you know two
people appeared one good day Dave yeah well I’ll be there and right a minute it’s like right outside the door it’s so
close and then the women in the office and I was she I was trying to
talk and give the talk and she was sh had to really focus cuz it was so noisy
next door so I just tell him to pipe down but and change position so I she
could hear me but you know we talk about relationship but we’re talking about formal practice and how are we relating
to what’s going to not other people actually in outside the room and I she
she was able to really focus and she said beforehand that she’d done quite a lot of meditation mindfulness practices
and she was able to really get into the zone of it which I can never do but but
she was really able to do that when we were together whereas I was like oh God
I want to get up and I want to tell those guys to shut up and and the women are shut up I have to say something next
week but see yeah it was the first day of the course but but how do we relate to other people and and I’m just kind of
bit rubbing actually at that because I’m going shush shush I’m trying to create a
thing here it’s it’s it’s it’s a common thing so when I was doing this volunteer work like every about every week for uh
six six years uh and I would go in like a workout room and when it was my time I
had to go in there and start setting up but there would be still be people working out in there and they had a radio blaring so it it became like this
I wouldn’t say War but I’ll just exaggerate a little bit to this radio War of you know turning it on or turning
it off and so finally I I I got approval to just unplug the radio and put it in another room you know what was going on
uh so then it just kind of gave it I wasn’t it was a con it was it was a
regular thing though you know of trying to get the space and then you would just have people in the other room you could
still hear it with the door closed turn the radio on and uh and still work out
in there and still hear it so yeah it’s a really so on one hand we have okay the
whole point of having kind of a formal meditation and in in a group of it is to
create the best possible conditions we can in order to have some kind of
reference point of okay this is more of an ideal thing we can really have the
supportive conditions to do what um we can to the best of our ability and on
the other hand we have the real world and I was the it’s funny you mention this too because I have a couple friends
that I’m helping um doing some renovation work on a apartment they’re they’re fixing up uh for the guy’s dad
and uh she said I was meditating the other day and their new puppy came up and started barking and she couldn’t
meditate and I’m just like um well you know this is the whole point of meditation with we’re in situations all
the time in our lives where we can’t control it we we we don’t we can’t control the outcome so how are we this
is one of the more important spiritual questions how are we when things don’t go our way you know and the whole point
of uh kind of creating those environments is then to build up some strength and resilience to be able to
meet challenging environments and challenging situations but it is a whole another Dynamic when that’s actually
involved in meditation practice itself with these commun communal settings and Community settings so yeah it’s it’s a
constant thing so yeah test uh patience is really uh help and it we’re building
the muscle and it just I want to commend Wendy for having the kind of um
wherewithal and and mindfulness and awareness of her own internal processes
and her perceived shortcomings but I would say that’s actually quite uh normal and natural because I went
through the same thing when trying to facilitate you know meditation for years in in these in these less than perfect
environments you know this is not a retreat center we’re going into here where everybody’s on the same page and
you know want to are paying money to be there and all this stuff no this is okay you get thrown a bone here I mean not
you know that’s maybe not the right way to put it but yeah and then what do how do we work with what we have you know
some people come into meditation and internally it’s it’s a huge mess you know and uh some people have quite
amazing experiences right away from doing this practice and you know um
things come up and we have to work with whatever we’re presented with you know
and how are we with that what do we do and how honest and straightforward do we
be I mean do we you know how much do we need to
say okay you know how much do we need to say and when when when we’re
facilitating you know experiences and things like this so it’s all good things and I think um yeah if you want to
comment on that and then I think maybe we’ll move towards teams a little bit uh if you’d
like yeah I don’t think I have anything to add to what you’ve just said I think I’m happy to go on to teams it’s it’s
it’s there I’m happy to do that you go so this is the one I feel I have the least experience in when I when I think
back to teams in in my life um it was when I was an adolescent in playing
sports and to me uh which I don’t do any sports anymore I I honestly I’m I’m not
interested at all um you know St Louis Cardinals are in St Louis which is a
pretty popular baseball team but I I know the name and the stadium and that’s about it I don’t even know if I could
tell you any of the players and so not that I’m totally against it the the the big thing is sports bring people
together you know they they uh and then they can all root for a common cause and
there’s kind of unification but I always say imagine what it would be like if you had that kind of interest in unification
uh and put into action something that actually made a huge difference in the world for the benefit of people you know
other than just the mere fact of gathering and supporting you know and then this notion I think is taken into
the business world of teams and competition and so the teamwork I feel
is great you know it’s Unity cohesion and working towards a common purpose and
cause but it’s often framed in the sense of I have to win and comp compete and do
better than and what that does a lot of times is give way to hostility and I’m
going to do whatever I can doesn’t matter what’s my path to achieve a goal that’s that’s one way and then if I lose
then I’m in pain I lie down I I feel bad about things um so these are kind of
more the negative aspects of teams and this is not really what I want to focus on um so but I don’t really have any
experience in the positive version other than theoretically a team is a a I guess
a small group that works for a common purpose or goal and that there’s really
not much hierarchal um High hierarchy you know maybe there’s a leader but pretty much
everyone has their own skills and abilities and they’re working together
um you know to address kind of uh an issue uh um I guess I don’t know some
kind of common goal purpose or cause and and uh working together in their using
their Specialties maybe and then also having uh commonalities and there’s kind
of a um a team Dynamic um but I don’t know if I’m getting this right or not U
Wendy what do you how do you feel when teams and oh the other thing before I forget and when it comes to relational
practice in in meditation we have talked before about meditation circling and we’ve talked about Insight dialogue too
so these are practices is where there an actual relational external practice where we bring our own personal um
formal sitting practice and meditation practice to the relational meditational practice and what that does is then um
helps evolve and change that and uh progress and then we can take what we’ve
learned and uh to back to our own personal formal sitting practice
Yeah Yeah so another one that I have recently learned is the person out loud
oh tell me about that yeah if You’ like so that’s basically where you you basically are sitting opposite somebody
like you and me like this and then I might talk about what am I I might talk
about a problem I’ve got for instance um so I’m just going to say for
instance say my class only had one person well you know now I’m worried will they cancel a class and all this
sort of stuff so this is and then you just sort of track that and you go a it’s a bit like
you you’re sort of noticing what’s going on while you’re sort of saying
things and and the other person is going is saying
um is it what can you feel and can you hold this that’s sort of what the only
the only thing the other person says and so what do you yeah what are the sensations and feelings you’re having
right now and then can you hold that and I found with very Bland ones
like when it wasn’t really a big thing then it was a bit more didn’t it felt rambly and whatever but it was very
effective when I had something really big say I had a a problem relationship in some way like somebody at the gym or
somebody elsewhere then I felt ah that had a lot of energy and and it worked really
effectively so i’ my feeling with Insight dialogue is it works really well
in a curious way so it helps you open up what is underneath that you don’t
realize that you’re doing whereas I felt the past out loud was more I’ve got a problem and it’s kind of buzzing around
in my mind and so I’m I want to see if there’s a way to what’s going on kind of
thing yeah okay so let’s just see I understand this right if I’m talking about the the challenge then the other
person is kind of like a support and a sounding board just act asking me back
what am I feeling and can I hold this right kind of as as as just witnessing
and supporting and giving that immediate prompting of support right with those
two questions yeah while while the person is kind of talking through what they’re
going through and noticing as well right yeah and so with regards to teams
so I as you were speaking I think I think the US is very very competitive
it’s a much more individual it’s the most individualistic individualistic country in the world I mean Australia’s
coming up there not to ways about it the communitarian side of Australia has sort
of dropped there’s no to ways about that and it’s much much more um
individualistic so what would I say say I mean have you got a common goal
that’s I don’t know that I would say that’s the case you know on the
externally you might go well we’ve got this project we need to get done yes that’s what I was talking more about
yeah yeah but actually there’s a whole lot of different things that are going on and a whole lot of different
relationship Dynamics and you know you you’ve got these strangers that you spend those sort of eight hours a day
with who you have no other reason why you would be in the same space with them other than they happen to be sitting in
a chair next to you good point I guess I meant more in a relation ideally it would be people that we know and that we
actually choose and approve of ourselves to go into a team with not just someone we’re thrown into at a at a workplace
with yeah but how often is that the case exactly exactly that’s why I I don’t have any experience with it you know
it’s not really never experienced it yeah I mean even in you might say a
family you you have a family and you’ve got what what have you got you know
you’re basically you’re strangers to those people yes at some level you aren’t strangers but actually you are
strangers you you aren’t in that space with other people you didn’t choose
those people you just happen to there a bunch of strangers that you happen to have around you you know you grow up
with and I think also if you were in a religious community now you’ve spent a bit of time
in different religious communities of late there’s always lots of he said she
said she said he said even in monasteries so I think that you know I
don’t even get on with myself half the time why would I expect anybody else to get on with me all the time like that’s
just ludicrous oh Wendy well not all the time yeah that’s kind of extreme but yeah but yeah I think people would
get get I get on with you just just fairly well I feel so I I wouldn’t be so
quick to write yourself off is what I’m saying but yeah yeah like we’re so but I
mean I’ve had my plenty of workplace challenges and ah is and also intimate
partner relationships and family and and friends and even so friendships they
come together what is it a season a reason or a lifetime you know people come to you and it’s interesting moving
into a new community and today for instance this lady who was in my meditation
class she might become somebody who becomes uh a friend she might not we
might just know each other in the context of this environment and you know I was actually in an Insight
dialogue uh class I do it on Friday mornings my time and I had some somebody in my if we
breakout into breakout rooms into diets and so we’re sort of working through our
our so we sort of get five minutes each to talk about a particular thing and not to go into the story of it
so much like he said she said she said he said but so much more well you know this is my question or I’m
feeling like this and and the question about how do
you you deal with colleagues and how do you speak to colleagues
and and actually I don’t know I’m sure I’ve said this but the first word in a
question is kind of key to what the rest of the conversation comes to so I could say uh
you know and so this why I remember your thing is why that’s not really usually a helpful question especially yeah yeah
exactly exactly or do you think or would you say or how you know um is it true or
you know all that that’s not really a helpful question because it’s not open enough it’s not curious
enough so we actually talked about what do you listen to when you are having a
conversation with somebody she wanted to talk about her son but also with colleagues so she has a
team and she was saying well actually aside is going you know what I hear you
care about is and listening to what the person cares about is sort of where the gold is that’s that’s the what you
really want to notice and using I guess mindfulness and meditation practice in a
conversation like this to me I can’t really differentiate between a formal
meditation practice and off the cushion because when you’re coming together and
you’re having that conversation so I might say for you what I hear you care about
is how to have a show which is sticks to
the topic which is meditation Q&A and talks about these challenges
and and keeping the conversation open and curious so this what I hear you care
about does that sound on track yeah yeah yes so this is I love
all the levels Wendy uses here you know it’s great it’s really really good and
just your pacing in the voice too yes of course that’s that’s spoton and
um yeah it’s it’s attention right in formal meditation practice our tension
is Always Somewhere whether we choose it or not so the int the attention in this
is is what are we paying attention to when someone talks you know and I like
this kind of navigational um kind of or Compass of okay well we’re going to try
to find out what’s important here what’s of value to the other and which I find
very helpful because uh living from our core values identifying our core values
and and using that as an orientation and a means of U Direction and um
satisfaction in our life and purpose and yeah driving force so then when I
recognize my own values and what’s important for me well then I just kind of will be conditioned to have a natural
tendency and interest to what the other what the other that I’m in um relation
or talking to interacting with what what’s important for them and I think this is a great
uh orientation and and thing to pay attention to now I I want to ask you
though uh I already did this once during this show if I remember like Wendy what
do you think of that and so to me that seems fairly open because I’m I’m asking
you that there’s really no limit here other than one’s own mind which can be
limiting right uh but then when we’re talking language is at the Forefront and
language is uh uses cognition in the mind and it can be very beautiful and
helpful uh and but it is also limiting it can point to things greater Beyond
itself as well but so when I say you know I guess maybe how do you feel about that would be better or uh but think
about that so I’m just curious why is that limiting so then I said a why thing or
like how is that limiting you know or tell me more about this please so I so
from a like just I can just feel my own so we’re talking about in we’re talking about meditation in meditation practice
and I think meditation is about becoming aware of I’m getting really hot so I’m
sorry about like it’s really I put the fan on full but it’s it’s summer in
Australia huh I it’s Queensland you know my it’s freezing cold here it’s 80%
humidity in 30 Dees you know like completely different here yeah and
my door is shut so that’s why I’m really but as you said what do you think about that and you said very quickly I could
feel myself kind of feel a bit cornered what do you think about that oh yeah it’s kind of putting you on the
spot forcing you to give something whether you want to or not of course exactly exactly so and it has an
intellectual response um the other one is how do you feel about that so what I tend to do in
my conversations with people when they’re a bit well I at the end of The
Meditation uh through the in the guided one I I will ask as sort of as the wrap
up I go um what was your
experience uh with this I think I think it’s what um I think that’s what I ask
that’s great what was this experience like for you that’s what I asked what was this experience like for you you and
then I do the kind of wrap up okay move your fingers and toes but it just gives that person to go ah actually I really
liked it it’s sort of it’s a nice closing on that
so it to answer your so and then at the end of the class that I held today I I
mean obviously it was just the two of us it was more of a conversation I said and how do you feel
about today’s class and she said oh it was really
good and I mean I would and she said I found very peaceful and I found really so tell
me how do you feel it just allows people to come forward with something that is
sitting here and you know when you’ve had a conversation it can be a bit tense
and you might maybe with your partner and it’s like you think you finished the
conversation you finished and then you go and so um how do you feel about the conversation how do you feel about our
chat and then they go ah look it was good but I just don’t feel that you
answer you were really listening to me Josh you know it just gives that opportunity like I think it was good but
I think I still have this I’m not really finished with this thing but I need to think about it a bit more so that’s
quite a nice way to end a conversation which is a bit sticky or every day I I
catch up with my friend and I’m teaching her to meditate and I do a five minute guided
meditation she got wild wild mind that’s all she can tolerate
and and I always ask is the wrap up to our conversation how do you feel about today’s
conversation and it just gives her an opportunity to say ah that was good or a
I didn’t really like what you did today or whatever it is helps me get some
feedback on that um I the thing about how do you Fe um
you have to be careful with feelings because in a workplace it’s not appropriate that’s why I like how uh
what I hear you care about is which sounds like a statement but it’s actually a question because it’s asking
for feedback what I hear you care about is sure is knowing what to say in a
conversation or how to bring conversation or understanding or
question framing into a conversation is what I this is these are this is all
great so yeah what we’re what what I’m I guess asking for is what’s the best way to get feedback and I also like this
other step of making it optional because if I ask someone what do you think how do you feel about how we talked well
then it kind of also forces them not not forces them but you know it’s like uh so
sometimes I’d like the extra step of oh if if you’re open to giving feedback I would love to hear that something like
that but you’re right it has to be appropriate and at the right situation not everybody wants to give feedback too
um but some people want that and they’re not given the opportunity right and this
notion that you talk about it’s it’s really a brilliant way um of uh what I
hear you care about is to me but on the on the pros you know we’ve we’ve talked about that it’s it shows you’re
listening it shows you care it shows you’re going the extra mile to connect
and uh really understand and and and try to cut through
misunderstandings um then it also um will show in my response then uh when I
come to you know what I’ve heard and then then start talking about what they’ve talked about then it also will
give like a reciprocity of you know where I’m coming from in relation to where they’re coming from and it kind of
gives a consensus of you know okay I’m repeating this back to them and then they can agree or disagree or slightly
tweak you know what I’ve said about them and so then there’s kind of a consensus building we’re on the same page about
what we’re both talking about right and we we kind of have some kind of mutual understanding of where we’re both at and
then we can go from there so that’s that’s the pros of this the cons of that approach to me it seems a little bit
sometimes forced contrived overly formal um but you know um so there’s there’s
times when it’s I think more natural to do and more helpful when we’re having kind of more formal conversations like
this and more public conversations and but as far as my casual relationships uh
I don’t normally do that you know uh I could probably benefit a lot from doing that more actually because uh it also
shows respect you’re you’re it’s just uh a really show of respect of doing
that it just it takes a little bit of training for me because it does seem more contrived and force but it’s just a
matter of habit right I’m not in the habit of doing that when I talk but if I would do that more then would feel more
natural and authentic so I think this is a great uh reminder for me Wendy of this
this technique and and Method I just immediately see the benefits from it automatically yeah
so um yeah I mean I it can be a bit contrived
in the beginning and it feels a bit awkward and people don’t want to do it because they kind of go oh it feels
awkward and contrived but it’s worth persevering through that edge because
your relationships will instantly improve and the other thing is so I’m I
I’ve been doing that practice to you know what I hear you care about is you know is so what I hear you care about is
finding a way to have a natural conversation and to elicit feedback and I’m going to come back to feedback in a
second but point my finger I’m come back that’s
Authority but I want to make sure I remember that’s what I that’s yes but because I’m training my mind all the
time I’m sort of really conscious of it I’m sort of so habituated to it now at
Christmas time I was talking with a relative and sometimes it can be a little bit Jagged our
conversations and and I just
went so what am I hearing let me see if I’ve got this so it sounds like what
you’re describing is this this this and this and because I was I I kind of been
training on what he cares about it sort of almost seeps into the background now
and then I I can kind of go ah what is that I’m actually aware like what is
kind of coming here and and he said that’s exactly right because and so
there’s something about the awareness of that comes with mindfulness and comes
with mindful listening that does help just the other person
feel understood because that’s the point of a conversation does this other person feel
understood it’s it’s very yeah yeah go and and I want to go on to feedback so
they’ve done buckets and buckets and buckets and buckets of research who gives feedb good feedback how do you get
good feedback all that sort of stuff and who gives good feedback and the answer is how good are
you at receiving feedback and if you’re good at receiving feedback you are
really good at giving feedback but if you never if you don’t really engage with
receiving feedback like I just do all the time then then it it you actually
kind of bad at giving feedback oh wow that’s great yeah so it’s very interesting um I was speaking with a
volunteer recently um he’s been doing our logos and I said to him thank you so
much for doing this without you doing the logos for my community group for the community
group I wouldn’t be able to go feel so confident about the meetings that I’ve
got so I’ve got some really big meetings coming up I’m meeting the one of the senior directors in our state bus
company that’s tomorrow wow so without having good logos I can’t get good
business card I can’t get a good you know marketing all my marketing material
it’s big in marketing yeah this visual it’s really important to come across as
a Professional Organization even though it’s Department of one sure but
but and so I was able to tell him so what is really important about what you
do is that it allows me to present the organization as a Professional
Organization what you do is giving me that capacity to be able to um um
present to people who are really senior who’s very important in an
organization and I can do that with confidence because of these logos and I’m not going to go into the
whole marketing logos all that sort of stuff what I wanted to really highlight is by telling him this is how you fit
into your work fits into the larger picture of what I do and the
organization therefore the organization does he was like oh that was so nice
that you told me that so I think giving feedback
receiving feedback it’s sort of the same thing is what I want to say it’s a great insight and it goes back into seeing
what someone cares about and what you said shows that you value and validate
what they do you know and that’s that’s very important as well and what you and and going back to what you said that
what identifying what someone cares about then then it it also cuts through a lot of things that obscure you know a
lot of emotions that may get in the way or a lot of things that aren’t uh important to the core of what’s going on
and then you can kind of tell also with the care you can tell the purpose of why someone’s saying what they’re saying too
and maybe what their goals are and what they want out of it their their intentions so it’s great and the
feedback thing that really rang true with me um because yeah the the the better we can receive feedback the I
think the the more effective we’ll be in giving it it just it just seems pretty clear and obvious so I want to just wrap
up the team so it seems like this ideal notion of teams that I have neither of
us have any experience in this and I think it’s kind of a rarity in the world where um we’re when we meet like-minded
individuals and we all want to do something that that we that we want to do to together towards a common goal
other than like sports or situations we’re kind of forced into and um
assigned by others to to be in these kind of contrived things that someone else has kind of put us in for us and
something that we don’t go out of our way to mutually seek um like you know
like-hearted like-minded individuals to come together on our own accord and our own behalf so I think we’ll have to set
that aside and well yeah you got another comment and we’ve got like three minutes to talk about Community which is the big
juicy toic right so okay I’ll be real quick because actually I’ve got a client
and he started a business with in fact I’ve had a couple of clients they started businesses startups with a
friend and both of those relationships have broken as a result of the startup
yeah so and both of them are lovely people but actually their coworker was
very difficult so I know one of them is very difficult and I know from the other conversations that if they had people
that who were equally able to self- inquire that would make a huge
difference so that I think is a really important part so going on to community
that’s important I don’t know how you deal with that one I mean I I will say something about teams because actually I
have a community group and so I have volunteers and they come into my life
and actually they’re really POS positive relationships I only had one interaction which was really like wow where was that
coming from and and that felt very very pediatric very very
pediatric so and Community is like that larger version of that so when you were
saying Community what were you referring to the monastery well that’s the thing I don’t want to specifically uh out
anything like that but we’ve talked about community on so many different levels before so I don’t know what else we can say about this is basically kind
of the the larger aspect of life that we’re in we’re in a community whether we want to be or not where we live is the
community we’re in too I just you know so the people around us in the greater then we then we can choose to be in
other types of communities so a larger aspect and I would just say in general some people um need to be in community
and they they have yet to have a lot of Mastery around that and uh but then
there’s other people who are kind of stifled and limited in certain commun commities and they need to break more
into Partnerships and teams I think and so yeah uh and some people
lose um qualities in communities and some people gain beneficial qualities so
I think it all depends on where you’ve at what you’ve done what your temperament is what your challenges are
what your strength and weaknesses are and it’s a really huge complex Dynamic that we can’t really talk about in a
couple minutes and it really needs kind of a more focus of what what we’re talking about we talk about intentional
communities that’s a popular buzzword right now you know so um yeah Community
is focused around a theme you know but there’s just so many different multi-dimensional relational aspects
when being a community and there’s so many factors to consider and Melissa
Reed says hi by the way so hi Melissa thanks oh I haven’t even seen any comments by the way yeah I I wasn’t
looking I just on hello hello sorry about that we missed you there gosh I
was on the wrong chat anyway gosh so sorry about M Reed we missed you we we
definitely forgot I yes my bad my bad um
so the other thing I will say about community in one second is that I do know about a um monastic community and
they read the 37 practices of a body SATA at at the beginning of every sit
they chant that every day how long’s Take Ah or I don’t know if it’s the 37
practice of body saer but it’s something similar and it takes a few minutes okay and what it does is it’s all these
reminders about how to be kind to people and how to be aware and how and they say
that it can kind of get a bit fraught but they by repeating these phrases it
helps them train to be that way so we did the four Great vows which I didn’t
say vow during that by the way but that’s a whole another topic but yeah those are hugely profound things to
start off a practice with too yeah go ahead yeah all right so I think we’re at time and I’m very sorry about M Reed
that we missed that I was my bad I was clicked on the wrong one okay it was just a hello so better late than never I
know but but I always like to have it I always like to it I went full screen too and I didn’t see it until later and then
didn’t want to interrupt the flow for it till here at the end but yeah well it’s it’s been great I’m I’m glad I actually
learned a lot here and I’ve got some things to practice with on my own and uh yeah I guess I’ll see you guys uh next
month right that’s the plan yeah that’s the plan we’ll see what happens okay be
well
Integrating Presence 
10 thoughts on “Partners, Teams And Community | “Meditation Q & A With Wendy Nash” #29”