Letting Our Body Talk | (12/28/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu And Lydia Grace)

For this month’s regular open-audience, open-discussion “Ask Us Anything” — continuing discussions about meditation and related topics — fellow Insight Timer teacher Lydia Grace, Denny and I listen and speak on (about, to, from) the body as well as:

The ins and outs, ups and downs, history, practice, practicality, methodology, experience, reference points for, accessibility, trialing, feedback, resistance to, novelty, adaptation, education, inclusion, intentions, and the cooperative/collaborative and/or facilitator led nature of Lydia’s intuitive body healing technique BodyTalk and its aspects of:

• wisdom
• allowance
• permission
• holding space
• consent
• information
• witnessing
• safety
• dialog
• identification
• mediation
• presence
• engagement
• opening to experience
• identifying and meeting needs
• feeling, describing, and voicing experience in the body and asking how old do these experiences feel using the age first coming to mind without going into memory
• similarities to Internal Family Systems
• (interpersonal) relationships
• change
• interplay with the subtle bodies
• energy transfer

We also get into:

• respect
• realization
• defensiveness
• Whole body listening: an invitation to listen to us with the entire body, initially without instruction in order to tune into what this may initially and intuitively mean to those listening so as to not color the experience. Suggestions later given on how to listen with the whole body. Listeners are also invited to reflect on similarities and differences between their uninstructed experience and experience after suggestions

• Lydia’s experiences with reading Clarity & Connection by Yung Pueblo for the practice of listening from
• Possibilities for listening to and speaking to the body on a cellular level via extrapolation of the examples of seeing, feeling and healing grosser vibrations and the environment of an Anechoic chamber
• References to past AUA Materiality and Mentality
• No mind
• Brain and mind
• Observing effects of gravity and mind
• The effects of stability and deconstruction on perceptions and limitations
• particle wave duality
• Qigong
• seeing energy flow
• electromagnetism
• memory (storage)
• (big) discussion on “wholesomeness”, right and wrong, semantics, and that which leads to and away from our — and others’ — long term happiness and wellbeing
• encouragement of investigation, inquiry and knowing for oneself
• Denny’s insights on identification, memory, and mirror-like experiences with dementia caretaking
• “It’s not just about intention it’s about impact”
• choosing what to pay attention to
• delineating direct experience from our interpretation of it
• cultivating grace and compassion
• *Lydia leads a guided practice*
• masculine harm, feminine fear, victim/victimizer
• infinite love, finite fear
• being seen and understood as our biggest need
• addressing existential crises with potential
• asking questions with courage and bravery

Some original notes not mentioned:

My request to Ajahn Sucitto for teaching on the 32 parts of the body [which some approach a condensed version to 1) skin level, 2) joint fluid/bone level and 3) everything else in between] and a given description for an upcoming Ajahn Sucitto retreat (https://bubs.my/retreats):

‘Wellbeing Is the Shape of the Heart’

15-18 January 2022

The heart takes shape based on certain activations. We can train to avoid certain intentions and actions that make a shaky heart that doesn’t feel secure, one stuck with pain. A wise person concerned for their welfare cultivates a citta that is open, spacious, not hankering, not resisting. We begin to reset how our world feels and how we feel about ourselves. This is our treasure.

• (Noticing the mind lying contrasted with mistaking a translation of intuition for the mind lying then ignoring it; recent examples:
  • Laptop — it occurred to me about five minutes into traveling home from family, ‘did I forget something’? I ignored this, got home and had to travel back about 20 minutes to get my laptop that was left charging in a “new”, out of the way location.
  • Gifts — it occurred to me about ten minutes into traveling to an even further family location, ‘did I forget something?’ This time I spent sometime going through a mental check list but it wasn’t until arriving over an hour later I remembered the select gifts I did not bring
  • Sweater — while in a hurry it occurred to me, something like ‘does anything need to be dried differently?’ I ignored this to have a sweater become engulfed in tiny white “pills”
  • [I’m not at the point of trusting to the degree where I’ll stop everything for these heads up questions and act on them without knowing]
  • Respect, valuing, honoring, validating intuition and discernment as possible skillful and wise responses for this
• How do we listen and allow the body to talk when sexual energy is involved?
• Chanting (with and without mantras)
• Using technology to transcend technology:
  • referencing some tech examples as taste of natural abilities once barriers removed
  • Sample Practice: (mobile) device weaning and natural world immersion for reference points (for how natural and manmade external objects aid and/or detract from affectation of body awareness)
  • 2012 Tupac hologram https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y compared to Facebook’s “Metaverse” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAL2JZxpoGY; the possibilities of inner holographic realities; and how this (would) relate(s) to the concept of a body, — physical and/or otherwise
• Sample Practice: Spine and/or central channel/(energetic) column –
  • Masculine (– and for lack of a decent reference, maybe a better version of the cliche doctor –) approach: assessing via observation; drawing on years of study and experience but knowing every time is not the same as the last; visualizing an ideal optimization; probing briefly for feedback; dropping expectation and dropping energy from attending to the unbalanced, non-harmonious, chaotic and pouring energy into a wholesome, wise and skillful visualized betterment of order, balance, and harmony.
  • Feminine (– and for lack of a decent reference, maybe a better version of the cliche nurse –) approach: invite a warm caring attention – as if one was attending to one’s only child who’s sick and in pain – to the spine, nervous system and entire body, with worthiness of renewal; knowing this is valid and valuable internally without the need for external references.
  • merging these Masculine and Feminine

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Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)

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The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:

So, this is not only a special episode of AUA

but it’s also the last one of the year. So, hi everyone. Hi, Lydia. Hi, hi, Josh. How are

you? Hold us. Good, good, good, good. So, I really want to jump

in and and continue with our last discussion. Our last question talks about the

practice that Lydia does which is body centric practice and one of the things that strikes

me was actually in the very beginning when Lydia talks about how her student react to her teaching and how they were

so enamored or focused on for first time they actually

listening to the body and I think in passing Lydia talked about a term that she used

called Body Speak and so I like to give this give it an opportunity to to Lydia to

continue with that thought and share with us her her teaching. And I think we have enough time

that both Joshua and I would like to contribute our own perspective to what we do in

the whether or not that relates to what Lydia worked on. Go

ahead Lydia Okay. Um yeah so last time we talked about the

topic was on embodiment coaching. So. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I in twenty 20 developed a

approach, I would say, I guess it’s a technique, but it’s more of an approach to the body, to

help people start to understand how they can open up an inner

dialogue with themselves. and it came from a lot of my

own challenges from being led by different coaches or teachers or therapists that

would like get to a point and then, I’d be like, but it’s not enough or it doesn’t work for

me in this way or and so, it was a combo of like understanding from the

perspective of being a yoga teacher and massage therapist and massage teacher and health coach over lots of years. Of

like, what is an efficient, easy way to start accessing our

inner conversation and all the different parts of us and you know, I, at the time, I had a

business coach who was like, you need a signature program for your business, you know, and so it kind of came out of

like the title, kind of, kind of came out of that, the Body Speak Method. Uh, mostly,

in all honesty, for marketing purposes, so that I would have a clear way to bring a unique

perspective to what I offered in my coaching practice. And,

So, before I even brought it into specific coaching, I actually just offered it up on

lots of groups on Facebook and said, I have this new method. If you want to try it out for

free and then, leave a testimonial, give you feedback, see how it works. So, I think I probably gave between one and

200 hours of of coaching for free to to many people last year in this method just to see

how does this work on actual people. Not just me and then my

sister and I have done trades for coaching in the past so then I did a series of sessions

with her and she was able to give me feedback. So, it was a really cool experiment but it

ended up working and and even as I practiced it myself, I

came across challenges of the approach. You know, so I I met resistance within different

aspects that the brilliance of working with actual humans was so amazing is I had certain

clients along the way Basically, bring in insight into can we approach it a

different way and it like opened up so much more insight into where areas that I hadn’t

necessarily seen. Like I had one client say, can we do this but can,

can it be less talking and can I be moving during it? And I hadn’t really brought in a

movement approach before, and so, again, it was this huge, amazing thing that really

confirms my philosophy, which is when you’re working with an individual, as a coach, I’m

here to facilitate, safe, consent-based space, so that

they can open up to their own wisdom. I’m not trying to put my wisdom onto them. I’m using

intuition, wisdom, and presence to create space for them to realize they are very wise

themselves. Mm hmm. And their bodies specifically are very wise. Mm hm and so, with that

approach, it’s a very rewarding approach as a coach because so many clients have these brilliant things I never would

have thought of because they’re unique in their own life and challenges, you know? So, the

Bonnie Speak Method specifically I made it a little

bit more of an intellectual approach because I noticed specifically for my personality

but I tend to work with a lot of people who are intellectuals And I’ve noticed again for

myself and other people who are think a lot. Information is safe. Information equals

safety. Education equals safety. And so one of the

things I emphasize with a lot of clients is, first of all, you get to give or take away

consent at any point in this session, and I follow your lead in that sense, if you’re ever uncomfortable, we pivot. I give

more options, you bring in an option, you’re not having to do it my way, but if you don’t have way, I present away. You

know, so you also don’t have to feel like you have to come up with something and that is the

one of the foundational elements of it of we’re opening up an inner dialogue, but there

has to be safety and there has to be consent for this to happen, because so many times we open into like listening to

a simp, like a, a sensation, or listening to an emotion, and then we get, identified with

it, and it runs away with us, or we run away with it into over identification and so one

of the main elements I wanted to bring in is there has to be some sort of inner facilitator or mediator And like maybe in

meditation it’s called conscious awareness or the observer or the witness. You know different approaches have

different words. And I let the client kind of pick whatever word they want to identify

with. And I say I’m going to be that until you have the skill to do it for yourself. and so

there’s always an element if something starts to feel wobbly, then, we go back to the facilitator who’s kind of

running the, kind of running the show, essentially. You know? I see. Mm hmm. And it goes into various questions.

So, a client might be sharing something, then, there’s an offering. Do you want to try out the Body Speak? They say

yes or no? If they say yes, then, we go into some sort of grounded practice based on

their personality whether it’s movement, breath, visualization, so that they can

come into being present and engaged. We set an intention of

safety, of consent, of, you know, opening up to any part of

their emotions, their energy, their thoughts, their beliefs, their mind that wants to have a

say in the conversation, we welcome all parts.

and then I basically follow my intuition. I say, you know, you said this earlier in our

conversation today, I’m going to bring this topic back up. As I say it in this moment,

if you were to feel it somewhere in the body, where would that be? Hm. And then it might go into one of two ways

if that part of the body, if you were to describe what was going on, like pure sensations, what would that be? Quiets them

out of the story. Then I take it into if that part of the

body, like a lot of people get constriction in the throat, or they feel tears behind their eyes, and I say, if that part,

if the tears behind your eyes had a voice and wanted to say something at the round table right now, what would it say?

We tend to move towards, and then what does it need? From this moment, from you, from

this conversation, and then we go back to, so, can the facilitator aspect of you meet

that need? The pivot that I can sometimes take is how old does

this part feel? Like, and I just say, whatever comes up,

four, ten, fifteen. We’re not trying to go into memories of the past, we’re not trying to go into trauma, we’re just

allowing their inner child per se. To come in if needed, and

then I say, again, we’re not going into the trauma aspect of this. We’re just saying, does that seven-year-old want to say

something now? Hm. Does it have anything. Does it have a need that needs to be met right now

from you? And so, again, this brilliant client I worked with, who’s an artist, she was like,

I like it but sometimes I feel like I want a little bit more in the body. Can can you almost

facilitate it where I don’t have to answer you right away but I can be like moving like off camera and so we did a

session. So, it was almost a little more guided on my part because there wasn’t direct answers and it was the most

profound experiences she had had and she was like I I can’t believe it. I came home to myself. I I feel it now. I feel

my big bit self with a big S and I’m not afraid anymore. And I I feel like I’m connected.

you know, and so, it was brilliant for her to bring that in because it made it a little

bit less engaged in conversation. And so, it almost gave her a chance to be a

little bit more in the body. I do the conversation piece because to me, it feels many of

us feel safer in our intellect before we know how to come into the body. And so keep on the a

little bit of conversation can have there be a sense of they get to be like I don’t know.

And then we cool. That’s a perfect answer. You know and we get to allow there to be a

sense of permissiveness as there’s this kind of co-regulating exploration

between me and the other person. And I want to say this is one of many approaches I

take to the embodiment coaching. So I had one client we did it once out of a three,

you know, we’re working together for three months, and it was like, she felt a little bit uncomfortable doing it. So,

I was like, we do not have to go there until you want to go there again. And so, it was

several sessions before it was interesting to go there again. You know, so it’s not something

I say. Every session, we have to do this. No matter if you feel comfortable or not. And so that’s kind of specific to the

body speak. Mm hmm. When I was developing this, I did not know that there’s actually a trauma modality out there that’s very

similar called internal family systems. they have more specific names like they say I

think self with a big S. I think I took that from them. They call it different parts. I

used to say voices. So parts voices are interchangeable for me but they they they say there’s parts of you that are

protectors. There’s parts of you that are managers. There’s parts of you that are firefighters. And then there’s parts of you that are exiles.

So I appreciate that approach. I specifically don’t love labels because I think it’s up

to the receiver to explore. roles they’re defining within

themselves. But I’ve been learning. I’ve been going through trainings in the internal family systems and

it’s very interesting and very effective for many people. And it it essentially affirms and

confirms what I was already on the path to, to be like, oh, there’s been research in this type of approach since like the

eighties. Awesome. You know. Um

So, yeah, like I said, that’s a very specific technique that I’ve used in in certain

perspectives with various clients that doesn’t always come in but it’s one, one way

that we’ve we’ve used that has been very effective and sometimes clears up something

in moments that surprises both of us, you know, where it’s like, oh, my two-year-old came

in and she just wants a hug every night. Like, what? Is that simple? We just have to share a little bit of a hug

with ourselves before we go to bed every night. I I was thinking about a scene that

wanted to seen in a movie where it doesn’t need to be husband or wife but it’s just like two

person and they were having an argument or they were having some difficulty with the relationship and one person

says, you you never listened to me and then the other person says, well, I’m listening now

and that actually get the other person more upset than ever because what what the person

was looking for was not just that that person listened to that person but that it’s the

respect that they were looking for. It is that they have something intelligent to say.

And so just saying that well I’m listening now. What do you gotta say? That that actually is the worst possible response.

So the reason I said that is is even though we talk about body speak. Uh embedded in that is

that the body actually has a lot of wisdom. And I think that was one of the thing that you

talk about. Can you can you elaborate on that? So it’s not just that we want to let the body speak to say like I’m

listening now. In this I really I really need to learn to

respect my body because it actually has a lot to to say. Yeah. Yeah and you know one of

the one of the ways I talk to clients about just this approach. I say it’s one of many. Like this is one way to

possibly enter into conversation that has worked for me but you uniquely get to come and say it’s not working

for you and that’s great because then that means there’s another approach that’s better. You know? And the point the

whole entire point of it is to give them access to realize

just like an interpersonal relationship with a family, close friend, partner. It’s a

relationship dynamic that continues over time. It’s a conversation that we’re opening

into the possibilities so that they can keep going with it. Where it and honestly, it has

100 percent come from the practices that I’ve learned from Asian tradition qigong,

Thai Ayurveda, Thai healing, yoga, meditation, so many of

these practices specifically Thai Ayurveda that talks about how we have different bodies.

And each of these bodies have different ways of of dealing with life and when there’s a block in one, if it’s not dealt

with, it’ll affect the other and the other and the other, but the healing can actually be a multi-disciplinary approach

where we don’t have to just work with where the symptom is. We actually get to work anywhere in the body it’s emotional in the breath,

spiritual, you know, mental, physical, and so so many of so

many of the things we go through in life are affecting different bodies, different

aspects of our humanity. So, we get to take whatever approach resonates with us the most, I

guess. Which to me is so, like, expansive and I had one client

that can, one of the things that she continued to say over and over about sessions when we work together, where she’s like, I’ve never, understood

this concept of permissiveness before and you emphasize it every single time. I’m allowed

to. I can give permission to myself And and it was such a powerful concept for her to

learn how to just be more. I think of it as permissive but also like compassionate. Like

I’m allowed to be human. As I grow. Instead of I’m not

allowed to be angry or I’m not allowed to hurt people. It’s like yeah ideally we’re moving away from causing harm to

ourselves or others. Definitely. matters. But we also get to allow ourselves to

be a mess as we’re figuring it out. Because we’re a human living friction. We’re like

we’re we’re physical. You know like this is everything about our life is friction. And

energy transfer. You know. As far as like science. I’m saying science because a scientist

might not agree with how I’m articulating this. Yeah. Um. So

earlier I I purposely used the word body centric as opposed to body embodiment. And and and

the reason is that I I want to take our common and put it under a bigger umbrella. So,

Lydia talks about embodiment last time and now it talks about body speak. but I I like

to kind of put that say, okay, there there’s a there’s a bigger world out there. Different people try different

ways and has to do with the body and that’s why I choose the word body centric because

In Buddhism, we practice the mindfulness of the body, The mindfulness of the body,

mindfulness of the feeling and so forth. And so I I like to kind of bring that now to this

bigger umbrella. And and I like to open this up to Josh and and see if he can make any comments

as to how your practice relates to Lydia’s practice either in

similarity or in differences. Joshua what, do you, what do you think of what leader just said? Too many I’m enjoying

listening right now and I invite you all to listen with

your entire body. So, this is a kind of a thing that I’ve heard and like Terravada, Buddhist

talks, pretty pretty often about entire body listening and I invite you to do that for the

rest of the show and maybe we’ll come back on and give our what that means to us but I

would invite the audience listening to this. just notice

their experience with whole body listening, whatever that means to you and you’ll have to sit there and think about it

and and figure it out. Just see what happens and then we can use that as a reference point

if we come back later and say what that means to us. Yeah. You actually, Josh, you you

actually. I’m going to pass it off back to Denny and Lydia Oh, no. Before we do that, but you you actually did prepare

something. Would you like to share it now? Uh too much of stuff. yeah, too too much. So,

if any of it works into a natural conversation, great. If not, that’s okay too. I’m very

interested too. So, you can make it work into a natural conversation if you want. You

have an okay we’re we’re extending an invitation now, Josh. Oh, yeah. Now, I’m, now,

I need to be defensive, right? So, no. I mean, if you don’t want to, I can, we can go and

then, when you feel good, you can. No, I mean, that, that is a great thing about, you know, having my own little platform,

right? So, I don’t have to, like, we’re talking about or a lady was talking about earlier forcing wisdom on people and

that’s a big lesson I had to learn Because, you know, now it just makes so much more sense.

It’s so much more at ease to dispense wisdom that specifically asked for. You

know, however, you know, I can do that in general on these online platforms by myself and

people can just find it if they want, you know, and and actually this forum here, we can, oh, you know, share things

that are related. So, it’s it’s pretty cool. Um, you know, let’s see. So, I don’t know.

What do you, what, more specifically, what, what would we like to talk about? Well, I

would love to say one thing based on what you just said. One of the lives I’ve done on

Insight Timer, I call it the Embody Book Club. And I will pick a book like for example, I

think last time I did this one by young Pueblo. He’s a he was

a monk for a while and then he became an author and it has

little excerpts, you know, like poetry about clarity and connection from the perspective

of a meditator. So, what I would do is say, first, you

know, where are you and your body and then similar to you like whole body listening, we would start with first listen

from your mind. I’m going to read this excerpt. Notice how you feel. You do that. Okay, now, listen from the bottoms of

your feet. We do that. Did you, did anything? Did you notice any shift? If you don’t notice

anything, cool. That’s not a problem. You also get to be where you’re at. Then, listen from your heart space. What

shifts? And it was very, it’s a very cool facilitated practice to do because the comments of

what arises in people’s realizations of where they’re listening from is so, it blows

me away. Just hearing other people’s experiences and it was such a, I remember the first time did it on inside timers

maybe early summer I remember being like, why have I not done

that in specifically in something like a conflict? Like, been conscious about

like, where am I listening to this other person from? I’m listening from defensive, like,

limbic, overwhelm, protective, measure, you know, instead of like, okay, I want to come to

this conversation with boundaries that match my value system and integrity but can I also at the same time listen

from an open front or from a relaxed spine, or from a

grounded pelvis, and like, what would happen if we started doing that more regularly,

specifically in more tense conversations where we meet our, our default is to become defensive first, you know, so,

I immediately went there when you were saying, whole body listening. You know, and that’s

the tendency is for us to match the energy of what we’re being presented with, right? And so,

the solution I’ve been taught is that, you know, if we can become aware of that, then we can focus more on how we want

to respond to and I think it’s fascinating this listening to and listening from different

areas of the body too, you know? I mean, is there a possibility for listening and

speaking on a cellular level even? I mean, just think, if all the barriers were out of

the way, you know, on a cellular level, I mean, this is a human potential perhaps that

you know, cells are vibrating, right? They’re not still either. So, if we could, how do we listen? Well, it’s reverber

right in sound. Um the cell is reverberating. I mean, it’s very minute sound if it if it’s

audible at all, right? And then there’s movement so we can see movement with our eyes. So,

that would be internal sight. I mean, this is a little woo woo here but and then feeling, right? So, if anything has a

vibration, you know, you take it on a gross level but if you scale it down more and more and more and the sensitivity

becomes more and more acute and able, well, then, it would be possible to listen to cells.

Ideally, given the the right environment. Now, you know, the other thing is and of course,

you know, you get into this what what’s it called? a amniotic chamber where there’s

complete silence and so, you can, you this is people experience hearing their blood

rush to their ears and their heart sounding like a machine gun or a drum. That’s how loud

it becomes. But anyway, what what relevance does this have? This this show said, we’re only

scratching the surface and that’s okay, right? Um just know that there there’s potential way beyond this and

we start where we’re at. Um and so, I, Denny what, are your experience of of listening,

listening to and listening from, because we don’t normally think about listening from, right? We always would just

like, well, we listen with our ears. Well, I I want to go back to one of the AUA where we talk

about physicality versus mentality or materiality versus

spirituality, right? And and really I I think we all know what a what body is. Body is

something that we can touch. We can we can smell, we can see, we can hear, we can taste. You

know, this is the body. Uh I I think there’s some misunderstanding what is the

mind and because and so if we go back to that conversation,

the mind can be part of the body and that would be like the brain or the analytical power

or your or your ability to to to recall memory and all that. That’s that’s just part of

physicality. Whereas in the Buddhist teaching or even in some way the the the Tao the

Tao is teaching. The mind is something else. The mind is actually beyond this this

physical body. And it’s just this reminds me. It is actually I remember one time a master

master says there is no my And we kind of you know I just I

blew our mind. What does it mean? There’s no mind. And what he’s talking about is that as

human, we we really cannot access our mind We, what we,

what we, what we think is the mind is the effect of a mind.

So, we really have to understand the mind which is not something that we’re capable of experiencing or the

effect of the mind which is something that we can experience. So, when you talk about listening to the body as

opposed to listening the mind, the question is, which mind? Is it the mind that we can actually assess with the body

or is it that are beyond the body, right? This reminds me of

when I was a professor teaching mechanical engineering and once a year, we had to teach the

introductory. Uh these would be students not necessarily engineering student. They could be premed or they could be

social science whatever. And one of the things that I need to do is to talk about gravity.

And so the little trick that I do is that in the beginning of the class I stand up or to the

podium and I carry with me the thickest book possible And I

just drop it onto the table. It makes a huge sound and then I look at the closet and I said

what is that? And the small student was says that’s gravity. And I said there is

not. It’s the effect of gravity. No one has ever seen

gravity before. Okay? So I I absolutely believe in listening

to the body. Listening the body for the purpose of not listening to a mind. But which

mind? which mine. I don’t mean to say not listening to a

brain. Because that would that wouldn’t be right. Alright. I’m

I’m talking about actually using all faculty. The eye, the

ear, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the brain. To listen to the effect of the spiritual

mind. right? So it’s it’s it’s different. It’s it’s going down

the same path as what Lydia’s talking about which is which is you know stop listening to the

the noise and get to know your body. And let the body speak to

you because it has a lot of wisdom. I I I think I understand that. I understand that. Now this is similar to

what we do. This is similar to what we do. Um we listen to a a body like when we’re in motion.

We try to focus on our hands and our feet. We listen to our body like when we’re sitting,

we listen to the breath, we do all kinds of exercise to enhance the breath and doing

deep abdominal breathing using the diaphragm with understanding that the diaphragm actually connects to

the entire body to a cellular level because every cell, every nerve, and every bone, I mean,

every muscle and organ has a membrane the membrane actually

conducts both electricity and magnetism And that, that, that, that flow of electricities and

magnetism is what we call chi. Um so, a whole lot of technique

is developed into listening to our body but a song I’m concerned, it’s has the

ultimate goal of using our body to listen to the effect of our mind.

Similar but not identical. You know, it’s really interesting because yeah, the mind is

considered one of the senses in Buddhism but you can’t, you can’t use your other senses to detect it, right? Um so, so

it’s it’s really fascinating. You can’t see the mind, you can’t, I mean, if you see, the brain is the physical

representation, right? It’s an organ. So, the brain is the brain, mind is something different, right? Um our our,

you know, some people use it synonymously but. I think it’s important even though we don’t

I think it’s important to separate them, yeah. Go ahead, Josh. Sorry about that. Oh, no, that’s, yeah, we’ll come right

back, but, you know, even this, this body, you know, it helps to be really stable and

grounded in, in our certain, in ourselves, too, because when, what, like, warning alert here,

with the Buddha was a master of deconstructing things, right? So, you know, we think we just

know what this body is, but do we really? You know, where the fingers start and end, you

know? If you zoom in to the quantum level, you know, that particle that or that sub particle that’s always

changing, how do you pin it down to the finger, right? In the hand, are you, you zoom way

out and what relevance does, you know, a hand have and then, so, a classic analogy that’s

always given as a car, right? It’s a car. We all know what a car is, right? But if you take it all apart and you put it in

boxes, is that still a car? Well, I I guess you could argue it still is. It just assembly

but it’s a it’s a box of parts then. So, this comes back to the Namarupa and so, it’s like when we think we really know

what something is, well then, I mean, that’s that’s it can help ground and stabilize us and give us some coherency in a way

to, you know, get through the world easily because if we had to figure out what a table was

every time we saw it, I mean, life would be really confusing and we couldn’t really do much, right? But then, at the same

time, if we think that, oh, I know what a table is, I don’t have to look into it any further Right. Um but you get

the point. So when we think we know something then, then, we just stop at one level. And

which is okay. There’s no value judgment on that. It’s just something to be aware of, right? Okay. So, Denny you,

were saying about the mind. Well, so, so, other than the

brain, I’m not saying that I know what it is, I, I, I’m, I’m saying that to me, the mind,

again, gone far back to the education of a engineer and a

scientist, we know that the world exists in both particle and wave, as well as

information. Right? So, I we understand that the particle in

the wave is is is there’s a duality so sometimes it can appear as particle and

sometimes it appears wave and the idea that and and people who does deep meditation they

talk about that that they talk about how when they’re in deep

meditation they enter into the states of deep somebody their body disappear and they just

see this energy within them in fact in fact this is how the qigong the qigong and the

meridians and the pressure point the the energy points. They would develop not by

dissecting a cadiver. They were discovered by the masters who

enters into deep meditation and all of a sudden they see the body not as a collection of

particles but you know, actually energy flow. And so I think we understand I think we

could understand how particle in a way could be the two

dimensions of our existence and I think the mind is the third dimension which is information

Is that for every thought that we have which is electrical signal, there could be a memory

of that thought. And that memory of the thought is stored somewhere in in the inside

body, or we talk about how trauma could be retained in, in

a muscle, and, you know, that could be enough police work in store. I can just store somewhere that is beyond a

comprehension but it’s stored somewhere because for every electrical signal, there’s a

magnetism and for every magnetic signal, there’s a, there is a memory of that. But

that same memory can then come back and participate into the

next thought. And so, in our teaching, in the Buddhist teaching is that it become, it

has this feedback loop. That’s why we so much on what we call the chrysalis thoughts. The

chrysalis, the wholesome thoughts that because if we have unwholesome thoughts, then, for every unwholesome

thoughts, it can actually leave a unwholesome seed and then, that unwholesome seed can come

back and generate more unwholesome thoughts. The best example I can give would be

like how you raise, how you plant tomatoes. You you have to

start with a seed. Now, Without deceit, you wouldn’t have the

tomato as a fruit. So, the seed becomes a fruit through conditions. So, the big thing

about Buddhism is that since you and I can change a condition, we can change our own destiny. There is no

outside force that says that your destiny is such that and there’s, you know, no, no,

everything can be changed by changing the condition but the point is that you start with the seed, you put in the right

conditions, it bear fruit, but now the fruit contains even more seed. and so if you start

with the bed seats, now you have a bad tomato, but then what’s worse is that you have even more bad tomato seeds. I

have, so, I’ll be controversial like I do. Uh, I have, and it

may not be, we might be in agreement. I have a problem with saying one thing is good

and one thing is bad. the the approach of saying unwholesome and wholesome because in my

perspective, from personal experience, mostly, not, you know, take it or leave it As

soon as I make a thought bad, then I it can trigger shame

which then triggers self sabotage which then triggers and that might feed right into

the point you’re making. I would rather see it as their

seeds. Let’s look at the quality of the seeds without judgement. Let’s look at what

happens when certain seeds are nourished versus others. Let’s

look at what so almost more of a curio before judgment Like,

which I don’t, I, I don’t necessarily think I’m disagreeing with you, because most Buddhist philosophy is all

about observation. It gets a semantic, yeah, it’s a semantic. I think it’s, I think I’m, like arguing the semantics

with. It it’s, it’s funny, Lydia. Real. quick. The the whole thing is to, to miss

that, you know, the, the, good and bad. So, that’s what the wholesome, unwholesome thing was supposed to get away from

the good and bad. It was be an alternative to good and bad. So, you you said nourishment,

that’s the thing. So, it it’s what’s wholesome. What nourishes us? What what what is, you know, what, you know,

skillful and also it’s translates as skillful and unskillful. So, it’s not good or bad. You know, there’s no

value judgment on skillful, unskillful, and same way with wise, wise enough. That’s not the point. It’s not good and

bad. So, yeah, that’s where it gets kind of confused a lot. But that’s not the point. The the point is not the choice of

the words. The point is not whether you choose something the two the the the economy of

good and bad or the dichotomy or wholesome unwholesome. That’s not the point. The point

is who get the judge? Who gets to judge? Is that what you ask?

Who gets the judge? So in Buddhism noone gets to judge. So it really doesn’t matter

then if noone gets the judge. And so it comes back to the world of positivity. You know

as we use the word about body positive. And I used the word in term in in Chi positive

which is that there is no judge No one gets to judge. If you

choose, you can judge yourself. But you judge it by experience. And I believe there’s a

difference between good and bad. I believe there’s a good difference between Hosama and Hosama. I believe it’s warfare

to distinguish from them. But you get to do it. No one else does. And you get to do it not

through your intellect. But through your experience. Right. And that’s the point. Semantic.

And it’s it’s all about. No, no, no. Not value judgmental. Not semantic. That’s a you that’s the westerners tend to

tend to just throw that out there as if that was the to solve all conflicts. No, you’re

right. No, it’s not. We’re not talking about differences in semantics, right? We’re talking about something very

fundamental than that. Yeah. So, I’m I’m sorry for I

have a bad habit of interrupting people. Um so, it’s it’s about what’s leading towards your long-term

happiness and well being and what’s leading away from that. So, I think that’s something we can understand and not get hung

hung up on semantics, right? Because you know, if we take those kind of out of context and without that added piece of

information then, yes, it can turn into a good, bad, value judgment really easily. So, I

guess rather than immediately disagreeing like I just did, I might as well. What I said,

which is be curious before judgement. I judged before being curious. Um, I guess for,

the question I have out of curiosity is, if you determined one seed is wholesome and one

is unwholesome, what are saying to do with that? Are you doing away with the unwholesome and

pushing it away? Are you getting curious about the unwholesome? Are you redirecting your focus to the

wholesome? Like what what’s the point I guess? Like, what? The point is very simple. Yeah, the

the point is over yourself what leads towards your happiness, long-term happiness, and well-being and the long-term

happiness and well-being of others and that we have to know for ourselves, you know. I know this wholesome thing is can be

a real trigger because different lifestyles that are popular are, you know,

different lifestyles that we’ve you know, we have different ideas about and that’s okay. Um

you know, so. I I can, you know, I my my dad I I talk

about my dad being a dementia. Uh someone who suffers from dementia. The good news is that he no longer suffers from

dementia. He’s too weak to even qualify. He has dementia patient. He just, you know, he

just lied there and and he’s just trying to he’s self determining his time, you know?

And so, my, my, my goal now is to give as much comfort and dignity as I can. But I can

tell you that a a a person who suffers from dementia. This is from you know first person

experience is that they they have lost much of the brain

power which is the physical side of the brain, of the mind. Okay, that that much is cooler.

But it hasn’t affected their spiritual side of the mind. Not at all, not a bit. And so when

that happens, they become a

white sheet of paper in the mirror. In other words, when

you approach them, if you go in there with unwholesome

thoughts, they will come back with unwholesome thoughts and you know immediately that thought was unwholesome.

There’s no way of arguing that. So, if you go in there, with

despair and anger and you know all that bad what we call the unwholesome thoughts. It comes

back ten times. And you can tell right away because it’s a mirror. So so that’s one one

case where it is it is very very clear. And so going back to what Lydia said about. So

what do you do with that? Now that you forget for a minute you know who get to judge. But

let’s say you come to the conclusions that this is good. This is not so good. This is

wholesome. This is not so wholesome. This is skillful. This is not you pick the word. It doesn’t matter. It falls into one and so in Buddhism

it’s very simple. It’s it’s very very simple. We we have these four ways. It’s just like four ways, four squares, you

know. If you’re doing something good, keep doing it. If you haven’t start doing it yet, but recognize it’s good, you know,

try as hard as you can to to do that. If you’re doing something bad, then you should stop doing

it. If you haven’t start, then you should never start. You know, it it’s a

self-discipline. I think where where I want to maybe clarify where I was coming from was To

me, it feels over simplistic. For example, I’ve gone through

trauma. I deal with PTSD. Someone reaching out their hand

for a hug to me out of goodwill, comes across as a complete threat to my entire

nervous system. My brain says, bad, danger, unwholesome. If I

wasn’t to get curious to be like interesting, what’s going

on? then become reactive cause

unintentional harm back to the person and we’re just both reacting from experience rather

than a sense of curiosity of really coming into the nuances of how are we determining

wholesome and unwholesome, how are we, what part of the body are we listening from? Am I

listening from my intuition? Am I listening from my intellect? Am I listening for my trauma response? Cuz those are 3

extremely very different aspects that are all affected by biochemistry. They’re all affected by the energy flows in

my body. They can all shifted like you said. We do have a certain level of power over

changing our internal or external condition to a degree. So much of it from my

perspective and experience I have struggled a lot to go into

philosophies that appear to me from my perspective to be

simplistic that don’t leave space for the experience of trauma in my own body, for the experience of trauma in my own

emotions, my own mind, my own intellect, my own perception, and there’s a word called

neuroception that comes out of the polyvagal three, which is your nervous system is taking in before your mind determines

what that means. So, it’s the nervous system responding the quickest to the environment, internal and external and then

at some point, it goes up to the intellect and the thoughts and the emotions and then, interpretations are made and

then, we, that’s when we’re kind of tuned in consciously and then, we make determination from that but so much of it is

happening before we have any sense of saying, putting any, like, value system or judgement

to the to the experience. So, from the that I’m coming from is how are we determining what

these mean? what part, what, like, am I learning this from

the conditioning of trauma that I’ve gone through in my body, unwholesome is going to be everything I see around me. The

plant is on wholesome. The animal is unwholesome. And I

think I, I, I, I want to say I’m so grateful, Denny for, your perspective on dementia,

because that, that feels like, like I’m getting teary eyed just thinking about it. It feels like such an amazing

compassionate experience that you spoke to or articulated because you spoke to how

significant deep presence is with people who no longer have some of the same functions that

we expect in regular society. You know. And. One of my one of my hardest thing to do is to

actually convince my mom and my siblings not to hug my father.

So when you said that, it really hits a nerve. because a

lot of times we have relatives who might be my dad’s sisters

And they don’t come often. They don’t they come out of care. Uh

out of of caring. And the first thing they do is that do you

recognize me? Do you recognize me? And this is the worst thing you could do to a dementia

patient. Because a dementia patient suffers from a physical

disorder. Not a psychological disorder. one reason another,

parts of the brains are not connecting. And so, they are trying to juggle, There are, I,

I, I, I, a patient with trauma, with deep trauma And they’re trying to juggle these multiple

world. They have a world that they remember, bits and pieces.

That could be like his childhood. It could be a world where he was bringing up three

sons, taking them to kindergarten. And then now he this new world where he doesn’t

recognize anyone but they he recognized them as someone who cares. and our survival he

can’t put them together. He he doesn’t he cannot he’s not capable of putting them together. And our survival he

he he cannot force them together. But the people who

visit him, what did they understand or not, is that they do things. are the need that

they want him to recognize them as their sister and so he’s saying that do you recognize me? They recognize you. That

actually causes pain. And when the first time I recognized

that is I was putting my dad to

sleep. And I tried to hug him. And it pushed me away. He he absolutely pushed me away. Just

like you were saying. He said the act of compassion, the act

of love by by any definition turn out to be a personal attack. Because he recognized

me, he recognized me as a caregiver, but not his son. And he never tried to bring them

together. And I crossed the line and he felt that he was

being attacked. And he pushed me away. He puts his cover under his head. He was scared.

And so going back to what you said is that someone else might

reach out to you thinking that they’re doing good. that by their definition is a

wholesome. Turn on not to be. Because it was a unwholesome act to begin with. Because they

didn’t understand your need. They never bothered to listen to you. They never bothered to

understand you in terms of your needs. Also though it could come from their lack of

capacity to even know that’s a skill to develop. So it’s like we have to have compassion for

the compassion and the compassion of the compassion. Absolutely. Absolutely. I was. Absolutely. So so I going back. I absolutely agree with you

that sometimes putting into this black and white bin, you know, whatever you name you put

in is not just that it oversimplifies the situation

that is actually counterproductive. And there’s a a quote I kind of came, I

came to a realization weeks ago. And I came up with some

sort of quote like, It’s not just about intention, it’s

about impact I feel like there’s a lot of conflict between people in the world and I’ve been at both ends of the

conflict. So, I’ve been the the person who has caused the harm and the person who’s received the harm. When we have this

idea that it came out of good intention, we’re setting ourselves up to not have to

retake responsibility for the impact it may or may not have had on another person and yes,

sometimes, in order to not be codependent, the other person to have their reaction, their

response as a human on their path. However, I think there has to be a little bit of

noticing on our end. What was my impact based on my intention? Did they match? Can

I make it closer together? Can I make my impact closer to my intention And I’m noticing a

pattern where my impact is constantly coming off as aggressive when my intention is

supposed to be gentle. Where what’s the mismatch here? So it it it encourages curiosity

rather than automatic judgment of like, well, it’s your issue. I’m sorry that I that you thought I was mean versus ****

I want to say that’s not my intention but **** I see you’re feeling awful. Now, I want to get curious. What what just

happened on your end? Like, how are you perceiving me? Without me even to, without even needing to go across the aisle

and say, because you acted poorly, I must be wrong. So, it, we don’t have to go straight to the other extreme

either. But it’s an invitation and the curiosity which I feel

like again my internal sense, I grew up in a very, again, from my perspective, more dogmatic,

conservative household that really taught me black and white binary ways of living that didn’t match my personal

identity As an adult, I’ve really had to work hard at

noticing what is the value that I took, what can I, what is super like, the truth, the

truth for me that I can really take that’s expanding my integrity, and what did not do me service, and Instead of,

again, automatically judging it, why didn’t it do me service? Is there just another

approach I need to take to the same truth, or is it something that I actually disagree with,

because I see it causes harm to others. So, as I’ve become,

like my client said, more permissive of myself, it’s totally allowed me to shift my

paradigm of what’s wholesome, what’s wholesome, unwholesome, what’s good, what’s bad, how I’m, where am I, is my bias

when I’m making these judgments? Am I in my fight-or-flight response or am I in a calm response when I’m determining a wholesome versus

unwholesome? Because again, for me, that totally determines, I’m so quick to say something’s bad when I’m in a

fight-or-flight, sympathetic response versus what I’m calm. Yeah. And this is, this is so

great and both of you guys speak to this notion of Ehi Pasico. Come and see for yourself. You have to invite

investigation. I mean, that’s what the Buddha was all about. He’s not, don’t take word for you have to you have to look

into these things yourself and and absolute all the time

encouragement for investigation and inquiry. That’s one of the factors of awakening. So if we don’t look into and investigate

and inquire about our experience, about things we’re hearing, well then, we’re just a mindless robot, right? Like a

a drone that just goes on and just, you know, in in to a hive mind, you know? So, yeah. So,

this is great. I I want to share one more personal story and kind of center around my my

dad. This time has to do with my mom. Um but before I do that, I want to bring us back to this conversation that we

have about the umbrella, the body centric, Spiritual

practice and and I think we were to take that and goes down to embodiment and embody speak

which is Lydia You. know, talk about which is what leader talked about and then and then

when I talk about it, I said, I distinguish between the spiritual versus the the the

materialistic mind. The materialistic mind is the brain, it’s part of the body. Whereas the spiritual mind is

something that we really cannot see or feel or touch or whatever but we can’t get to see and feel and touch the

effects of that. And so our practice is really about calming down, slowing down our

senses so that we become very sensitive to this body, very sensitive to the breath so that

when these unwholesome thoughts that are deep, very deep into our sub sub subconsciousness

when it comes up, it affect body affects the breath and so we know right away that okay

now I I can make a decision to follow that or I can make a decision not to follow that. It’s a choice. And only I get

to judge. Right? So back to the now go to the story and this

last probably I would say most intense was the last six to nine months. But before that it

it was building up in terms of taking on my dad who was actually at one point still

very functional. But you know a lot of the issues and in

comparison, it’s actually a lot easier now to take care of my dad than it was before but anyway, when my dad start to

lose his ability and becomes incontinence, incontinent,

then, it falls upon my mom and I to clean him and we we were

looking for a full-time caregiver more than one maybe but things were moving so fast.

We just didn’t know, didn’t really know to do at the point. So there was a time when it was we bear the total

responsibility. Which is okay. You know I I have time so I stay over at night. I you know

after a while I just take over an evening and my mom would take care of the day And and

and so and so forth. And one time you know it happened and

and it was my mom decided that she wanted to clean that and she start using bleach. So much

bleach. That I couldn’t even and I said, mom, why don’t you sing using so much bleach?

Don’t use so much bleach. It’s it’s really bad for you and but I know why because she really

didn’t want to deal with that smell. It it wasn’t just the physical, it’s the it’s it’s

mental. She didn’t want to deal with what’s in front of her. And she really want to get rid

of that. And she did it with bleach. But it wasn’t the physical that she wants to get

rid of. It’s the idea that she want to get rid of. So anyway, after a while, we both kind of

got used to it and she was actually becoming more at ease with it. And I said, mom, you

have nine grandchildren. You raised three. Changing diapers was easy for you. Why is it so

now. and she said, and she’s very, she’s very good. She

said, Stephan Stephen, because I don’t want to see it. This is

not what I want to see. I don’t want to

That’s why we practice because mind that is walking. It’s the

subconscious mind that is working. All that attachment wanting to be like it was

before or that aversion reacting negatively or that comes up through your deep

subconsciousness but you had no way. You didn’t you didn’t take my teaching serious enough to understand that what I’ve been

teaching you is actually developed that sensitivity to your body and your breath so that when that effect of your

mind comes up, you can choose

he he starts to start to understand that. and that’s our practice. That is. That’s so

profound. That is actually our practice. Is that the same thing in front of you is more

than just the fact that it’s just so ugh. But it’s your mind

that is so ugh. And it’s that. And I I think too. I think for

me so much of my internal struggle has been not even

necessarily from what I observe about myself specifically. But more about what I Think about

what I observe. So, it’s the judgment of the weakness I see

in myself, the fact that I am quick like you, I’ve been practicing really hard to not

interrupt but I have that same issue. Quick to interrupt or try to steamroll a conversation and in initial observation, my

my second part of my mind, I don’t know, another level of mind is like, CFU, like, you

suck and you’re never going to change and see, all you do is hurt people. Like, it’s almost like, again, it’s not the initial observation. It’s what

what I do with the observation that has caused, I think, me, the most struggle and

resistance, and that’s where, I want to, where I’ve worked a

lot to cultivate, that’s where we have, where we cultivate the grace, the compassion, and when

we can start, like you said, really noticing a shift in our own bodies, we see the profound

effects of healing that it can have that we can then extend to others, because I, I think if we try to do that to others

before, we do it for ourself, then it’s almost transactional. Like, well, now, I did it. You

have to do it and then, it can almost, like you said, it can be counterproductive when we haven’t really and sometimes,

we have to do it with someone else first, like a coach or a therapist, or a, a, a, a qigong

teacher, so someone can guide us into it, and then we can be like, oh, okay, now I get it,

now I can extend it, now I can practice it. Yeah, Denny spoke

to the sign and the signless and Lydia just so beautifully illustrated this point of

there’s a difference between experience and our interpretation of the experience and most people live

in an interpretation of the experience, not the actual experience itself and some people can’t even tell the

difference, right? So, that’s where these practices can really help us delineate and discern between the two. Um and

you know, if if we do have a little bit of time here, I know we’ve said this for two shows now. If Lydia would guide us in

in a in a practice unless Denny wants to wrap up something here No, no, no, I think that’s a

good idea. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. Okay, if we have a few minutes to extend, it just got, it just

got choppy for a second. Did that happen for anyone else? Okay. Now, it feels smooth.

Okay, so the intention again, intention to me is always really important. Anyone

listening live or to the replay, you get to have full

consent of how much or little you want to participate in this

guided practice. So, at any point, you get to follow your own body and if it, if there’s

an if it feels off, you stop. You go to the bathroom, you drink water, you open your eyes. You get to have this as a

way to practice consent within yourself, to practice what feels safe, what do I want to lean towards, what do I want to

lean away from? In my human person, sharing?

The intention is always safety and consent. So, the first thing is find a comfortable spot for your body. You might

feel comfortable standing, sitting, lying down. If you feel a little bit thirsty, it’s

always a good idea to drink a little water to bring a little more flow to the physical

experience. I like to sometimes start just with a little bit of a gentle roll to the shoulders.

Bring in a little bit of circulation to the upper body. Follow your intuition about any

head movements you want to do. Relax your jaw. See if you can start relaxing your eyelids.

Whether that means keeping your eyes open or closed. That’s up to you. and then, take a nice,

deep breath in through the nose. Exhale with a sigh so you can hear your exhale

Do that a couple more times where you’re breathing in through the nose. Almost, it might almost feel like an

exaggerated exhale. The audible sound is a signal to the nervous system to start relaxing.

Another evidence-based approach is taking your pointer and middle fingers and putting pressure without pain over your

eyelids. So, you’re just going to feel this and this is a way to start relaxing the

nervous system in your brain, the back of your neck, down your spinal cord.

Notice how it feels to have your fingers put pressure on your eyelids.

You can keep your fingers here or you can take them away. Whatever feels intuitive to

you. Start to bring awareness now. into your breath.

where what parts of your body are breathing you right now? Do you feel like your entire torso

is moving? Does it feel like just your shoulders and upper body? Dear breaths, inhales,

and exhales feel shallow. You may feel relaxed. Do they feel open, constricted? And just

throwing out words to give you examples of ways you can start to notice.

As you’re tuning into your breath Notice what part of your

body has your awareness right now.

A lot of times when I’m more heady, I tend to be much more aware of my upper body and I feel a little bit dissociated

like I’m not very aware of my lower body, my back, low back, or hips unless I feel

discomfort. So, notice if there’s a part of your body that you’re mostly aware of and

notice, you want to stay with that awareness or are there other parts of your body that

are inviting you into awareness there?

Take a deep breath in through the nose as you exhale without thinking about how relax twice

as much. Notice how that feels.

Bring awareness to the center of your heart space. Imagine

smiling from the heart.

and imagine that as you smile from the heart, you’re opening your awareness, you’re opening your intention, you’re opening

your perception to welcome in

whatever you desire in this moment. Welcome in self-worth,

value, unconditional love, peace non-local consciousness,

as if when you imagine smiling from the heart, you’re opening access to greater source, to

greater intelligence, to greater infinite source,

infinite experience, infinite love.

If it feels good, you can visualize that now that’s be almost becoming solid and

moving through your whole body with your circulation as if your heart is pumping it through your whole body all the

way to your fingers and toes, underneath your fingernails, in between the webbing of your

toes, all the way down your spine, to all the nooks and crannies of your body, as you

go into this little imagination, notice if there’s anything that shifts. your

perception of your body and your awareness

and take the next few moments to be with yourself, To be in

this moment. If you notice you’re feeling uncomfortable or maybe there’s anxiety that

you’re becoming attached to. A good practice is to either

listen to the heartbeat or focus on lengthening your

exhale. Both of these are really helpful and down regulating or calming the nervous system. So you can

focus on either of those. Otherwise you can allow your

awareness. To just feel expansive.

being present in this moment.

for your awareness once again to your breath.

Notice if your breath has shifted at all. In this little practice.

Notice where your awareness is in your body.

If it feels good, you can give yourself a little more extension of love. You can

imagine your hands are an extension of your heart smile. And if there’s anywhere on your

body that your your body wants a little bit of attention or love, you can send your hands.

to those places so that you have the experience of both giving and receiving.

And then when you’re ready, when it feels okay for you, you can blink your eyes open Come

back to the live conversation.

Thank you, Lydia That. was wonderful.

Indeed. It would get us back into real quick comment of what

Lydia said earlier about, you know, this kind of one side of her say, screw you. You know,

you’re harmful kind of thing and you know, it it there’s there is a lot of truth to that because over the eons, you

know, or in recent history, you know, just kind of this masculine idea of harming and

just not giving, you know, so there’s been so much, right? So much harm. So, that’s why it’s

it’s like the bard for non-harming and committed to

that, right? And so, the thing but and also to use this kind of warrior energy and that that

energy that’s still there in a lot of males and not to to you know, to totally do away with

that. The species, male species altogether, right? We can slay ill will. So, instead of

suppressing that energy, just turn it back on itself, right? And and This is where like this

thick we’re at in time where yeah the the non-harming thing is just way more admirable.

Well, it always has been, right? Than any kind of, any kind of harming or anything like that. So, just wanted to,

to, to throw that out there, and then on the flip side of that, and it’s totally

understandable that the feminine is caught in this fear because of the way they’ve been

treated, but now, that is a challenge too for, and it’s not something they’ve done wrong or something. It’s just that I

just see this so much. The state of fear. And it’s okay. It’s okay to be in fear. And it

it but to investigate what is this all about? You know? How do we break these victim

victimizer cycles? I would love to share a piece of wisdom that I 100% a tribute to my mom. Who

listened to our last live by the way and loved it. So she might be listening right now. Or to the replay. And I in 9th

grade in high school and I was dealing with like demonic dreams or that’s what my perception of. A lot of fear. A

lot like fear when I was awake. Fear when I was asleep. And I I had never experienced cellular

full body fear that couldn’t go away before. And we are up one night and she was telling me

little stories And I just was desperate. And she used words

that I later changed the words. But she said Lydia it doesn’t matter if you believe in god or

not. God is infinite and Satan is finite. So, why would you ever compare fear to love? And

later, I, I, I, it, she didn’t exactly say those words but I interpreted it later when my

beliefs shifted about how I saw the world Of love, if, let’s

live, like love is infinite, and fear is finite. Why are we making it binary? Why are we

making one more equally powerful to the other? what if

love was infinite and fear was finite? There, we don’t have to fight fear. You know? Because

the greatest human need is to be seen and understood. It’s not to be agreed with. It’s not

to even necessarily be fought for. You know and if we come from that place of extending

that to others, it almost makes fear and pain and

defensiveness. Like ephemeral. You know, like wisp away. Obviously, I’m talking very

abstract. You know, there’s a lot going on in the world that we have to like work with very strategically but that has been

one of the most powerful concepts I’ve taken through my life that has always brought me

back to like connection, you know, and one other thing that she said, she has these moments

of brilliance that I’m like, you were a Buddhist satha. Uh she wouldn’t know what that means but where I was like,

mom, I don’t, it was like, I was in college 20 years ago or something and I was like, I don’t understand why we’re

alive as humans. Like, I just, I, I was in an existential crisis. And I was like please

don’t give me religion a religious answer. Please just give me you in this moment. And

she thought about it. She’s like potential. As long as there’s potential there’s reason to be alive. And again

it was like what? Who are you? Oh my goodness. Okay I’ll take that in for the rest of my

life. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful and wise.

That’s right. Yeah. That’s very nice. Well I think we should this enough. This is wrapped up

year two thousand twenty-one more or less. Weirdly skin.

Yeah. Thank you, Olivia. Thank you so much for coming to our AUA and now being such an

integral part of it. Well, she’s co-host now. Yeah. It’s always, it’s always a fun

journey to see where it goes. Yeah, absolutely. Just like these things. And and I, I want

to extend an invitation to anyone listening, whether you’re in the replay or the

live, always ask questions, send comments, because it always makes conversations even

more interesting. So, never feel afraid to comment if you’re listening through the

replay on YouTube or if you’re live, you can also join my circle on Insight Timer and Bodied Living and ask questions

there. So, it’s all interactive is great. And that’s the thing,

right? Bravery and courage to do so, right? Mm hmm. Right.

Okay. So, with that we’ll we’ll say goodbye and goodbye to two

thousand twenty-one eventually. Thank Lydia Thank. you. Thank

you.