Podcast | Vedic Astrology, Enneagram of Personality & Wheel of Totality with Indra Rinzler

Some of the topics Indra Rinzler and I address:

• Who is Indra Rinzler, what he does and how he helps people
• What is “self”/”Self”
• (my unique laugh)
• “So I’ve heard” and “Thus I’ve heard”
• “positionality”
• clinging to beliefs, views and ideas
• insights, letting go, emptiness
• changes
• live as a mirror and Indra’s net
• triggers
• expansion
• formlessness

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Vedic Astrology

• http://www.indrarinzler.com/astrology.html
• “same same and different”
• satiereal vs. tropical time
• 24 degrees backwards
• how Western and Vedic Astrology were once very similar and currently not as much
• (my) experiences with astrology and (loose) parallels to learning math and navigating megalopolises
• casting charts for time periods and places
• origins and history
• Mesopotamian tablets
• omenology by the priest class and advisors regressing over time
• dumbing down of society
• Copernicus, Galileo, Potalamy
• Greek 59 epicenters to explain how the sun circles the earth
• popularity of some theories over others
• Astrology to identify patterning in order to let them go
• folks going to Astrologers when at their wits end
• needing to know vs. not needing to know (the origins, or the why) for releasing, clearing, letting go [I didn’t mention that if the same thing repeatedly occurs after clearing again and again then perhaps look into the origins and why it keeps happening]

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Enneagram

• http://www.indrarinzler.com/enneagram.html
• https://secretenergy.com/ennealogy
• history with Gurdjieff
• archetype/personality system added later by student
• detects core story to be able to come back to the moment
• THE sticky 9 Judeo-Christian archetypal/behavioral stories of last 2000-5000 years both visible and invisible
• The story we tell about ourselves and its importance, non-importance, solidity, malleability, becoming its script-like nature, clinging and holding it loosely
• Tarot as an archetypical system
• distilling a session down to eight words with/as an affirmation
• “I guess I gotta do it”
• entering open vibrations for information
• origin of Enneagram shrouded in mystery
• cycles of rediscovery
• “You and your cat both think ‘let’s go down and have a beer at the bar'”
• anger, emotion and fear as core instincts
• extroversion, introversion and mesoversion/ambiversion/neutral/”quality control” as responses or directions to/for incoming energy
• Three instincts times three directions = nine Enneagramic vibrational signatures:
  • 1) perfectionist — anger inward making up the right way to cover for feelings of uselessness and inadequacy
  • 2) helper — outward selfless appearance to create codependency as love strategy
  • 3) producer — achievers (for social status)
  • 4) inward emotion/individualist — sensitive, artists, expressive
  • 5) observer — fear inward using information to protect feelings of inadequacy
  • 6) loyalist — fear neutral with anxiety and doubt learning courage and duty using faith, not mind to get out of story
  • 7) enthusiast — outward fear, lighthearted, partiers, storytellers, actually running away from feelings
  • 8) boss/challenger — strongest personality with all offense to cover up teddy bear in their heart
  • 9) peacemaker — neutral anger – disconnect from self to create harmony

• one’s main enneagram number uses wings, or other numbers for coping strategies
• taking on others by proximity and merging
• coming to no-story by going through your story not the story of no-story
• complexity of “Dissociative Identity Disorder” and empaths
• multiplicity of fears
• discerning fear from past traumas, past lives and this current life as priority
• nothing is personal concordant with experiential nature of our lives
• deja vu, unexplained knowing, and depth of present time
• scientific studies of past lives

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Wheel of Totality

• Astrological houses containing awareness on the highest level
• example: 10th house in mundane astrology is career while the higher version is love
• houses without planets are blindspots
• overlaying natal chart onto Wheel of Totality to see qualities and abilities both present and not
• houses:
  • 1) who you are
  • 2) duality, judgementalism
  • 3) mind
  • 4) heart
  • 5) God/cosmic intelligence, acceptance
  • 6) practice, challenges
  • 7) (discerning) conditioning
  • 8) nonseperation, interconnection
  • 9) emptiness
  • 10) love
  • 11) realization, surrender, trust, progression, ultimately no one in control
  • 12) changes, transcendence, impermanence, vision

• balancing and integrating the mundane, various modalities, groundedness, practicality, and practice with stages of galactic gasses, transcendence, and awakenings

• https://www.facebook.com/indra.rinzler or indrarinzler@gmail.com to book a session, and/or send birth date and time for Vedic chart with short instructions on how to read, and/or for a five minute Enneagram test

http://www.indrarinzler.com

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The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:

hold this and welcome this is josh dipple from integratingpresence.com and today i’m with
indra rinsler indra how are you today
this evening i’m really good uh nice to be with you josh it’s after dark i’m not sure which ender
is going to come out now that it’s nighttime so well we’ll see i guess yeah this is this
is late for me yeah well it’s even later because you’re on the you’re on the west coast and i’m
in the middle of the country later later for you but it’s late for it’s not that late for for you but it’s
late for me happy to be here no well it’s a pleasure having you so uh
indra reached out to me and um and on a pod um pod matching service and um i think uh
i don’t think we need to mention names but of what it was but it’s like it seemed like we had a good match when
there wasn’t a lot of maybe particular people to match up with me so it was a good thing um and andrew
want to just start off with a a brief maybe a bio and then what you do
what you’re interested in and what we’re gonna uh would you like to talk about today
well uh you know i’m glad you didn’t ask me who i was because that’s that’s a difficult question but uh
the uh identify with being a vedic astrologer i i’ve been on the spiritual path 50 years
and what it has come down to is that i i share a series of modalities in life
readings i have other modalities that i use to help clients but i basically
my focus is on helping people to wake up to who they really are and so i use
science and intuition that i use uh observable science you might call them
pseudosciences but observable sciences that that give me data in order in order
to understand patterning in order to help people to uh to
become aware of their personality but i’m not talking to the personality i’m
talking to the essence because that’s who we really are and the idea is to help people to let go of who they think
they are and become who they are i’m not interested in making a better story
the better story is no story so that’s what i’m focused on
well you know this is one of the um questions i um often have fascinated
with with uh folks that are on a spiritual path and we don’t really have to go into this
uh too deep but it’s fascinating just from the get-go of this notion of self
you know what is self i know i’ve got the whole buddhist uh teachings on it and i don’t need to go
into that i do that on my my site and stuff but i think in the there’s also this notion of uh yeah self
with capital s itself with the lower s and just for my ideas and my understanding and my
notions of it i don’t cling to any of it i’m just i just i just like to know what how people
learn from how people perceive this thing we call self yeah well that’s that’s an easy question
right i know i just yeah so here we are married now we’re
engaged we’re practically married [Laughter] so so i i agree that you’ve got self
with the smallest itself with the large self and and and we like to anthropomorphize
anthropomorphic everything uh anthropomorphize everything and the
thing is is that the the larger self is essence it’s a consciousness it doesn’t have
form and you can’t really understand it because it has no form and the small self is who we think we are this is the
personality this is the id it’s the it’s the one that’s doing everything it’s the one that’s thinking
it out and it’s that’s the one that we have to protect it’s the one that we that we’re insecure uh for
uh and and and guiding us to run
uh obsessive behavior in order to not let everybody know that we’re that we’re insecure so um
that’s the small self and um those kind of comp sets are you know i
mean it’s good to get a little bit of a definition i’m not this is no criticism or anything but the thing is is that you
don’t want to lock into anything and and i read this i read this uh quote recently in a book
he talked about the phrase um so i’ve heard
so i’ve heard and the power of so i’ve heard is you don’t commit to anything
and so rather than say i believe you say so i’ve heard. and and i did a uh i
mentioned this to a lady i was setting up a podcast appointment and she said we’ll see you in two weeks i said well
the calendar says i’ll see you in two weeks that’s right who knows what could happen
it’s that old joke you know how do you make god laugh well you tell them your plans right so yeah
but the idea being the idea being the the so i’ve heard is that you’re not owning anything that that you are that
you’re free to to to not be attached to any position
uh he he calls them uh he caught he used this word positionalizations like person
personalities it was uh positionalities positionalities the positions are these
things that we hold on to and the idea is it’s a little bit like is it go fish where you try to end up with no cards
so you want to end up with the least number of of positions and so so i’ve heard it’s very freeing it was you know
incredible it is a really wonderful lovely thing because you know a lot of
the tarabata a lot of the terabyte of buddhist uh sutas start out thus have i
heard right and i’ve got a buddy on that in san francisco that we do a monthly
ask us anything with and he named his youtube channel thus i recorded
yeah well you know that’s probably where it came from this is a modern author who’s pretty enlightened but i mean very
well could be yeah you know the the darn thing is is when you when you when you deal with ancient
teachings everybody’s kind of talking about the same thing that’s right it’s it’s so wild how there’s so many
different commonalities and things are put just a different a little bit different way and uh you know this
positionality or what was it called position uh a personality so positionality yes
positionality that’s great because i was uh for the longest time you know i was clinging to ideas i mean
that was i was really identified with okay this is the way it is okay well you have to you have to see things this way
or you’re wrong and that whole that whole trip right and so um you know it’s it’s so just like a relief when i
can let go of that not have to be right all the time and just consider all these different viewpoints and not be clinging
or attaching to any of them too it’s a wonderful thing yeah so that you’ve just defined the spiritual path
it’s shedding shedding shedding getting being dry and then getting insights and
then being dry and getting insights and shedding and letting go and releasing it’s it’s it’s i don’t think it ever
ends because you know they say at the highest levels
that well you think oh it’ll get easier because you’re more evolved but but they ask you bigger things like he says
the final doorway is is the letting go of life it’s the surrendering of life and i don’t think
he means um i don’t think he means a physical body because i think at that point you’re not
attached to the physical body it’s the whole jumping off the diving board into the water you know the water of
of uh i was going to say void but it’s not a void but the emptiness
of whatever uh ethereal and causal plane have in
store that the the you know so the so i’ve read this before
that the the highest levels they’re they’re their ass is big time for that
level you know it’s it doesn’t get any easier it’s like parenting i always said you have kids
no i do not no and i’m not even i’m not married either so attention ladies attention ladies
okay so go ahead so uh so what i uh i always said as a parent is that it doesn’t get any easier it just keeps
changing and and so you say well you know when they’re when they’re in diapers it’s you
know or before that you have to nurse them and then indict you know as they get out of diapers you’re free with that
but then they can run more and at 16 you don’t have to change any diapers or take
care of them but you’ve got you know then they’ve got the car and they’re out and you don’t know when they’re going to get back and there’s just different
kinds of things that happen you’re pushed on on different and more uh maybe
more sophisticated deeper levels especially um because whatever is
triggering you are your triggers you know so so it’s uh you don’t have so many
the triggers are simpler you know when the kids are younger and so this is
i think this is a mirror everything’s a mirror for everything this is we we talked about indra’s net that’s indra’s
net is is that at all points have mirrors and everything mirrors everything else and there’s there’s no
there’s nothing that’s not connected to anything and and and so i think this uh
this is uh this is what i believe that the the the lessons
they just it just keeps the ante is up but it isn’t much different than
day one there’s this uh teacher that i’m really into still uh matt khan and he talks
about you know what if consciousness was always expanding and um it’s an interesting concept to
consider right and uh rope real briefly i don’t want to throw too much in here but the trigger thing
was that uh you know i tell people i’m grateful when i get triggered actually because it shows
what kind of work needs to be done not like a lot of work that needs to be put under a spiritual microscope and really done a
lot of things on but it says oh yeah you know this is um this is the work that’s presenting itself now yeah
yeah absolutely i i agree with that the universe is expanding and so it doesn’t
it’s again how can you put words on to describe what’s going on but if but that’s right
it’s possible that the word consciousness that’s expanding may apply to what’s actually happening
you know that it’s yeah it’s a fascinating concept and going into the formless realms you know and the i think
it’s the the hindu stuff and the buddhist stuff too is like um i think it’s called diana’s and um
maybe uh sanskrit and it’s the um it’s the genres uh so you the the first
four of the form form states in the uh the next four are uh the formless states you know and
then the some of the formless states get into these really refined states of consciousness like um infinite space uh
if or i should say boundless boundless space then you remove that and
what’s left boundless consciousness uh if that’s removed what’s left boundless uh
nothingness or no thingness and the most subtlest level is if that’s even removed what’s
behind that is neither perception nor non-perception and so when we get into you know such
refined states of consciousness of that there’s really not much language that can be put to it right uh
so they’re they’re formless to begin with and then you know how do you really put language to something that refined
you know some people have but yeah i i anyway
that is the nature of it it is it is uh beyond words think you know thank god
that it uh but but it gives us an idea even those words you were using i was feeling
uh uh lifted uh you know lifted up and uh
expanded so yeah they talk about the brahma realms and whatnot right so so you know i was
thinking um why don’t we get into some of this um your modalities that you help folks with um the big one that really i
mean the huge one that i really am pretty much um ignorant i wouldn’t say
ignorant i just haven’t studied a lot well that would be anyway uh vedic astrology right um
there’s so usually the one here where most people are familiar with in the west this i think this is just called
western astrology but vedic astrology is uh significantly different right
well it’s it’s it’s you know like we say in thailand the same same indifference so
so it’s it’s it’s got it they all came from the uh from
mesopotamia you know uh 600 a.d 600 bc
the trade routes took them both ways and so the planets are relatively the same western of course uses asteroids in the
outer planets that that traditional vedic doesn’t use uh the signs are the
same and the and the house meanings are the same they could be different but i mean
western astrologers don’t agree with western and vedic don’t agree with vedic and if the western and the vedic don’t
agree then it’s that’s just part of the game that the big deal is the biggest deal is is that
the charge the chart is cast slightly differently the the vedic chart is cast with the real time that’s start time
and the western chart is cast with tropical time which is the the relationship of the sun and the earth
which is the seasons and so in in the start time we take into account the sky
behind the sun which isn’t the same every year it’s on a 26 000 year
orbit uh called the procession of the equinox and this is at the same time the
most important part of astrology and uh the most difficult and the least
understood but the the the idea being is that the western the veda chart is cast 24 degrees backwards
and as time goes on that 24 degrees will will increase about 400 a.d the two
systems were the same and now 1500 years later the two systems are different
and and so they they’re both uh relative they both are helpful
and they both uh can be relevant but they have a different frequency
and again i’m trying to i’m not trying to make any predictions i’m i’m i’m interested in helping people
to wake up and i find that this positioning based on the sidereal time kind of is like a key it’s like the the
the key to unlock the lock of who we think we are what are the
energies that we that that that um that uh
that we become uh um obsessive about that that create the possessive the
compensation uh compulsive behavior that we then uh are
um that we compensate for our behavior you know it’s um
i’m really kind of out of my depth when it comes to this i’ll just give a little quick personal thing i haven’t had very
much i’ve never had a vedic a reading or anything like that just uh maybe a humorous antidote here um i i
did get a um chart drawn up but i didn’t have a reading so i just i gave and she printed out the chart and i i didn’t
want really a reading it was just kind of like snatch it and go right i didn’t know i was it i i don’t know maybe
there’s some superstition in me handing over my birth time to someone that i don’t really know and trust and you know
yeah so that’s one thing but then i think i went up to another astrologer at like a crystal fest and i and i said
okay what’s my sign um and i think she was close uh you know
um so i i don’t know if that’s fair to do to somebody you know out of the blue like that to test them but uh so that’s
just kind of kind of the kind of um a joker i am not really a joker but i mean i don’t
know i like i like to push people uh sometimes when i can a little bit just but but in a good natured uh a way you
know um and so um so okay yeah i’ll just that’ll be enough for now and then uh maybe i’ll circle
back around to possibly what you said well hang on i take that back one other thing is i i just feel like
when i get into topics like this i take me back to high school math where the highest i got was um trigonometry and
geometry i really understood because i could you know i could see the visual there and the math came along it just
really kind of made sense and clicked right in algebra two but when i got into trigonometry i was getting these good
grades but i didn’t understand it it was the weirdest thing somehow i was getting good grades but to sit down and explain
what was going on or how it was happening i i was completely clueless and and there’s a lot of subjects where
i just have like um keywords right like you know i listen to this astrology podcast every once in a while it hasn’t
been a long time and i hear these key words and terms but i don’t want to mean you know like trines and squares and
aspects and um you know lunar mansions and so i have all these key words but
nothing really matches it’s kind of like me navigating a city a new city here too i i know that little neighborhood here
and there but when i try to get from one neighborhood to the other uh without the gps for some reason i haven’t haven’t uh
got in there yet so it’s just i i have so much respect for this because it’s such a huge vast system
and um well here i go with more stuff but one thing that really fascinates with is the
patterns it can show throughout you know larger society too uh i know it uh it’s
a lot of people are interested on the individual level i like showing like the whole you know if you draw a chart for
like um like a specific thing in time or even the earth sciences that i’m really into
like a specific place and how all this inner uh relates and connects um so
there’s plenty of commentary but before i forget i also want to throw this last thing in is that
how the changes in astrology you talked about a few of the changes in the system and how that happened i was fascinated
how that happened and why and also if there’s i mean this is going really uh into the origins of this so if we know
of any of the stories of how this came about uh you know uh like i mean the who’s and
why so that’s enough for probably for a good while here all that stuff
uh well let’s see um it’s a buffet it’s hard for me to decide
i went back to the i went back uh the in the uh
starting about 10 years ago i went back and i wanted to i read a lot of books on the history of astrology in order to
know where it came from and i was interested in that the the mesopotamians
was a very high culture 5 000 years ago and they they have we still have millions of their
business uh tablets uh you know their bills and their receipts and everything that they have
in tablets and they were a very advanced society the first city the first city-states
and and the whole the whole reality that when people come together
uh that that that a guy could be the baker for everybody rather than just the baker for his family
and so a lot of changes went on and then what happened was is that ominology came
in and omnology was the the idea that that that if you asked
a question and then the birds where do we you know where should we go war east or west and
then the birds come by and fly east so that means that we were going to go east and
that that we should war east or maybe we shouldn’t go east and then there was you know when to plant and is it going to
rain and all of these important questions and so they developed this very sophisticated ominology and they
developed a class of citizens who were kind of in charge of those priests and things
and and the the uh the the i remember now that the the the advice on the
advisors the advisors realized that they got it wrong that they would get killed so they came
up with this work around which it’s the birds [Music]
that and they killed millions of animals for a thousand years in sacrifice and
beautiful women in order to figure out which way their liver was pointing in order to be able to get that the gods
were so smart that they put the liver the correct way so this went on as we were as we were uh
you know in in higher times mesopotamian before i think astrology
was used in a in a in a higher way that it’s a it’s a vibration it’s a very high frequency but it is like everything else
has been it’s been dumbed down into you know at worst newspaper astrology
but but also to my uh cup of tea 50 years in is is
all the opinions and i’m not a fan of aspects particularly i’m not a fact a
fan of holding people in a place i’m not a fan of good and bad i’m not a fan
of of that you can’t overcome it that that it is merely that the story i i
think that there was a lot of astrologers had a lot of i call it billable hours in in making problems and
then they could they could then they could then fix those problems so they developed a lot of
you know that you needed you know a prayer wouldn’t work for everything you had to have its own prayer
so uh this was in a in a uh we were the we were getting dumber that
the the the societies were had had smarts and then lost it and then
as we come back now uh i mean galileo you know in galileo’s time before that
um uh who was the one before him that he died he he wrote the book about uh
copernicus or no copernicus yeah i think it’s copernicus yeah uh that he wrote the book that’s saying
that he got from his arab tudors that in fact the earth uh circles the sun and he
didn’t want to cop to it because uh he uh he was going to be killed
so he wrote a book that was released on his deathbed i think it was the first time
he saw it and so he was dying anyways it didn’t matter and and it took a hundred
years after that for galileo to come along and he was only in prison for the same truce
but he invented the telescope and that was an important part of it so that’s that’s a little bit of the i
don’t know if that’s what you’re looking for but when i read i i put this all together and and there were other
aspects ptolemy and how systems that he created and how we’re still using some
of those and they have a relevance for today and the greeks did a lot they
they got off kilter with the um with the epicenters with the 59 emperor centers to try to have an explanation
about how the earth the the the sun circles the earth but um
so there was some good or bad in this sense of there was some right and some wrong
but uh not that we know anything about you know all my all my theories are only my
beliefs i suppose i mean every a lot of people agree but we don’t really know squad about any of it but but the fact
is is that when i look at a person’s chart i can see things about them i had a
client at a fair this weekend and they you know i mean it was just you know you’re this you’re that you’re this
you’re that yes yes yes yes and it’s like i didn’t plan it theory is
and and i’m able to with the different modalities i’m able to and and what’s the point of it the point of it is to be
able to once you understand your your patterns is to be able to let them go is to not be is to see through those
particular stories that’s right it’s like we can’t really change what we don’t know we’re not
really aware of right that’s always the first step for changing something and this is uh a cool way to
another another like a lens or another angle
another tool in our toolkit to to see things that we uh weren’t previously aware of or
sometimes i i guess it gives people validation and maybe more um
impetus for change you know and more support as well for things they know they need to make a decision on and have
been putting off and so when that time is right can add support for that perhaps
well people come to me at a particular time that when they’re really
at a wit’s end to a degree they don’t come because uh uh
you know they were looking to have a spa day but i wanna i wanna
i want to comment on one thing you said that you don’t act you don’t need to know i mean
at the beginning you kind of need to know in order to release things but eventually you don’t actually need to know what it is in order to release it
you only have to identify it in your body and then release it but you don’t have to know
what it is and you don’t have to know why or where it came from beautiful point because um you know
early on in my practice and path you know it’s like oh i just had to know it was so fascinating you know i’d sit with
a question and i would get an answer but then that answer would only lead to more questions and i would just the kind of
obsessive wanting to know having to know and it was just like a such a relief when it’s like being okay with not
knowing and then also yeah in the body that’s right we don’t have to have language or a cognitive aspect of it you
know that that awareness just about all of our experience can have a physical
correspondence right um but actually a sensation or feeling in the body and a lot of times you know a lot of that
trauma is stored in certain areas of the body and so when that can be felt and um
seen or felt or known it can just release we don’t really even have there’s no requirement to know what it
is or how how it is i mean that’s kind of like icing on the cake sometimes for people that are into knowledge uh you
know more cognitive knowledge and whatnot but yeah it’s it’s totally okay not to know
and yeah yeah absolutely but on the other hand when you you know there are things that
you can clear without knowing but then there are things and and and maybe a
step you know maybe a private preliminary step for most people is to is to get the
clutter you know if i clean the kit i clean the kitchen i do the dishes and clean the kitchen
and then my wife comes behind and then she cleans the kitchen
so there’s you know so there’s levels and and and the fact is that they all
work together they’re not actually uh separate they’re just they’re just two sides of the same coin and it’s just the
process and it doesn’t really matter but but uh the fact is is that we kind of go
you know you you you you uh oh uh when we’re uh painting the deck
and i’m doing the scraping to get the paint off then i use the steel brush for a while and then i use the the uh
then i use the broom and i use that a while and then i use i forget what other tool i have i use a
little bit of that and then i use this and you know and get it down then we wash it
and then we scrub it again so that’s right different processes and tools that’s right yeah
well uh so now the the second modality you were telling me about um was um let me oh the is it the enneagram
is that how i’ve heard a pronunciation enneagram any agreement personality okay
and uh you know i think the i heard about this uh years ago but then uh i think it was on secretenergy.com
as i learned more about it and um but not too much i haven’t dived deep into this i know a lot of esotericists
are kind of into enneagram and now it’s it’s uh
there’s also it goes it’s it it goes into different areas and
modalities of life and walks of life and stuff like this but uh so you’re the one
or whatever you focus on is is more on the personality level right is uh what can you say um about this
for folks so the the enneagram enneagram is a greek it comes from a greek it means nine-sided figure and so it’s a
it’s actually a combination of three uh geometric shapes that are combined that have nine points
and at the and we could put different objects at the points the
gert chief who gave it to us he put musical notes at the points he put planets at the points he puts
foods at the points but he didn’t put personalities uh and i believe that was because while psychology was known it
wasn’t really codified and it was a student of his student
who was a psychologist and spiritually bent who put personalities at the points
and made up these nine archetypes and so it became a psychological archetypal
system but the thing is is that it’s an incredible it’s not only an incredible archetypal psychological system but
there is no end game in psychology you can use it to help you to know yourself better and you can have better
relationships and more compassion for other people but there is no getting out of your story because all you’re doing is
observing behavior but it’s a spiritual tool that you need the enneagram is unique in that it gives you your core
story and then it gives you the goal of coming to let go of the story in order to come
back to the moment and i believe that that these archetypes are not just
archetypes they are the archetypes these are the nine for whatever reason is nine
the nine um judeo christian archetypal behavioral bs stories that we
that have been developing over the last two to five thousand years that is so sticky
and and you know both visible and invisible at the same time
you know it’s like when um when i get asked and go on different shows and what you know like tell me a little bit about
yourself and it’s just like this awkward moment like i think the last time i answered is like um well you know what
we say about ourselves that’s actually what we become you know you you you say
something about yourself and that’s pretty much what you are you kind of like you know it’s like a self-fulfilling
prophecy it can be and uh and it’s like i will have to spend more time on that and so it’s like
i don’t know maybe i take it too seriously because it’s it’s really odd like that at a
certain point where uh and then some people you know can’t that’s that’s who you know they can’t see anything beyond what story they’ve
they’ve told themselves um and the archetypes uh really fascinate me too because i heard this um notion
that the tarot uh is actually or one way to look at it is human archetypes um
and i thought that was really fascinating too absolutely yeah they are uh i use a
tarot deck at the end i i uh after three hours of three modalities
i i i read them back what they say at the beginning in the reading and then i say well do you have any questions
you know let’s do a tar reading so i pick a card one question one card if they have more than one question then we
do more than one card and then i read from this really deep book and i like to say
that at the at the end of the reading they give an affirmation and they and they usually take three hours down to
eight words and it’s really very inspiring and it always really is almost always as it
just hits the nail on the head and uh [Music]
the thing is is that when you’re in what they have in common is that when you’re in
the uh an open vibration then then the information will come and
it can come the same information can come in different ways very cool and uh that that like that
technique of like distilling it down to eight words it’s kind of almost like a mantra that will um you know tie
everything together and just kind of give that entry point into the whole thing that you’ve just done for them
right is that kind of fair to say uh i think it acts like a um
uh i guess i gotta do it you know
you know it’s like oh like i can you know like get the enneagram
yeah i’m kind of that way but that’s kind of a lot of work to get over it and then the astrology
and then the wheel of totality done it and it’s like okay well he’s he he talks
a good game but i don’t think so and then you do the tarot card and it’s like oh geez i can’t i guess i guess that’s
it that’s it so
um two things with the enneagram your chief is just a fascinating figure
as you well know did he ever i was curious now if he ever said where he got that from if it just
came popped out of nowhere yeah i’m pretty sure he wouldn’t give away his sources on that right so or not but then
the other thing is if go ahead i just could say he’s a mysterious man oh you say the least i don’t know we
don’t know whether he made it up or whether he got it from somewhere else and it’s so interesting that’s this is
why the enneagram is so mystical because it’s said to be a sufi tradition but the sufis don’t take any responsibility for
it because it was all underground but there are a few historical references to some
systems that were similar and again we could have had a similar the the
esoteric meanings have been lost and in this in this age where we’re marrying
uh older higher uh uh yugas you know generations
um that that information is coming back it’s it’s it’s
it just naturally pops up again it’s it’s the synchronicity of people coming
up with the new inventions at the same time or or you know you’re you know you
and your cat both think well let’s go down and have a beer at the bar you know you you it just uh
you know good ideas happen for both more than one that’s right it’s it’s it’s it’s amazing
how these cycles happen it’s forgetting and disremembering you know on micro and macro levels and uh speaking of
synchronicity i was just gonna mention this uh sufi story about gert chief that i think uh so that gill fraudster tells
that uh or that i heard it from him anyway away that he he like i don’t know he spent
all this time getting to this one sufi master if i’m getting this right and he finally got there and he said um i want
you to teach me how to breathe and then the the the sufi master like uh
just cracked up laughing and then after that he um he agreed to you know to
to train them and and different breath techniques or whatever it was i forget exactly
where but it’s just not the typical thing and yeah it’s uh yeah i mean the books are there and there’s plenty of
other um stories and methods there but yeah he definitely was a fascinating figure do
you think it would be okay to just uh name the the nine archetypes um really briefly or some of them
no i’m happy to go around uh can i give a little bit about him or just absolutely yeah whatever you’d like
so uh the the the i’ll give them to you the thing is is
that there are three the what it’s based on and and people aren’t always aware of this i
like to give this is that there are three core instincts they’re centered as centers of intelligence there’s anger
emotion and fear and while we have all three of them in us one of them is at our core
and then there are three reactions to energy coming toward us and so there are those that go outward to it they’re
called extroverts uh there are those who pull back from it they’re called introverts and there are
those that live in an actively neutral spot where they where they they can be
they can act into extroverted or introverted but they actually live in a neutral spot that i call quality control
they’re kind of checking everything out and so three natural directions times three uh unique instincts because of
non-unique energetic enneagram vibrational signatures and so the one is the perfectionist this
is anger inward and they they uh need everything to be done the right way
because at their core they are uh they’re feeling uh a useless
or inadequate and so they want everything to be the right way how do they know what the right way is they make it up
okay and and people say well you’re always you these sound so bad so so i i i mean
on the high side they teach you about perfection but that doesn’t tell you much about the story so the idea is that
you have to work through the bad stuff in order to be able to you have to work through the compulsive sticky part in
order to be able to uh to live the higher part and then when you live the higher part then you can teach it to other people so now the
the uh the other two anger is eight which is anger outward that’s the boss
uh uh or the challenger and they’re the strongest personality they have i like to say they have all offense and no
defense they’re covering up this teddy bear in their heart that they don’t want you to see because they don’t want to be vulnerable and the the neutral
anger is the nine that’s the peacemaker and and they they accommodate other
people they disassociate from themselves in order to create the sense of harmony
the only problem is is that they’re creating a disharmony by disconnecting from themselves so
so that’s the anger so the anger uh the the the emotion to the two three and four the two is the
outward this is called the helper and they take care of other people uh it looks self selfless but it’s
actually a very manipulative story that’s really kind of uh sneaky in that
that you’re trying to create codependency in order to get love from them that they don’t feel within
themselves and uh issues with pride uh two threes and four fours all feel shame three is
the neutral this is the producer and and they they are the achievers the in in society
they’re the ones that are always busy in achieving for social status and uh
that the four is the inward emotion and they are the individualists
and and they’re the most sensitive these are the the the musicians and the dancers and the photographers and they
use in facebook they use adjectives like crazy they they’re so expressive and so feeling so
so now the fear types you have the fear inward which is the observer that’s the five and uh they they use information as
a way to protect themselves uh from their from their feelings of inadequacy
uh the six is the loyalist that’s the fear neutral and they’re about uh anxiety and doubt
that they that they they need um the loyalty is is that they need to
learn courage and duty and so they have to leave the the canyon of fit with faith you can’t mentally get out of this
story and the seven which is my particular story the enthusiast we’re outward fear
and so we’re the greener pastors people we’re the people that love to have a party we’re we’re we’re uh lighthearted
we’re storytellers and uh we we were actually
um uh something that i learned a few years ago unbeknownst is that we’re not actually
running toward we’re actually running away and what we’re running away from is our feelings
well yeah those i mean it covers the gamut doesn’t it i mean um
yeah it’s a that’s a brilliant um
i mean i don’t want to use the word modality but i mean yeah the arc an architect an archetypical system
that pretty much sheds a lot of light on yeah just about any kind of combination
come up with what i was striking me is how many of those different things that i’ve experienced
or seemingly experienced right on some some seemingly different stages of life and also
um maybe somewhere just kind of surface level or maybe it’s that i’ve noticed that in other people too you know um
well there are uh the the you know as you get into it a tad deeper
there is a there is a teachings within this is that you change your persona you put on a different mask
at different times and so when you’re when you’re uh uh when you’re
a coping strategy you go to your wings and that’s the number on either side of your number so if you’re a five that
would be you you take on parts of the four story or you take on parts of the six story and when that doesn’t work
it’s a five then you go to your stress place which for five would be number seven so then you become spontaneous but
your spontaneity isn’t the spontaneity of a seven is let’s go the spontaneity of it is is
that is a compulsive spontaneity so it’s it’s a stress place and everybody goes to a different number and stress place
and so it’s really interesting that it’s not exactly that the extroverts become introvert and the introverts become
extrovert but it’s it’s like about 70 percent of that and as you move around you take on others and you can also take
on others absolutely you can take it on by being around it you can also take it on by not being very by being a mergy
type twos and nines are mergy types and there are people in astrology who have sun
with other planets with two or more other planets who don’t know themselves very well and so they take on other
people’s stories because it’s better to have a story that isn’t yours than it is to have no story i mean ultimately you
want no story but you’ve got to come through your story to the to the reality of those story not the story of no story
that isn’t freedom well that yeah that’s what we were talking about at the beginning right this notion of self and i just um
wondering how this would be you know um how this might muddy the water to
uh consider this for someone who’s um i guess the official term you know in psychology or whatever
is dissociative identity disorder or something like multiple personality types and you hear
these people in the alternative me talk about alters and all this type of psychological programming and stuff and
then but it’s just also for people that uh you know are i guess more empathic where
um they just yeah they just kind of can feel into what’s going on with other people and
you talked a little bit about taking on other people but um you know and sometimes it seems like
impasse they don’t really have much of a choice i mean i guess there is but it almost seems like it takes more energy
to not empath at a certain point for some people than than not um
so yeah absolutely i had a teacher who was empathic and at birth and he and it was
it was he was a hermit because he couldn’t handle all of the noise being a nine in
particular he couldn’t handle all the noise and all the disharmony he didn’t he didn’t want to hear it you know
so yeah it’s a particular problem everybody has not everybody but
everybody has their own stuff and there are some really interesting particular patterns
and difficulties that people have you know like like all of the fears i was reading
somewhere recently all the different kinds of fears that you can have fears of claustrophobia and fears of heights
and fears of uh bad smells and fears of i mean everything you know it’s it’s and pretty
much you know maybe you know about this but i i’ve heard most of our fear is i’m sorry if i uh cut you off there
no no go ahead uh that most of our fear is learned right um i think somebody was
saying that uh it seems like there’s only a few fears we’re born with or something like fear
of loud noises because i i guess that signals uh kind of danger
and fear of uh falling backwards um because there’s people can crack their head open really
easily and i want to say i heard about that um you know i don’t
know about the about the fear i think that some of the fears some of their reactions come from previous lives i
mean i’m not a big i’m i mean i believe in reincarnation but i’m not a fan of that i got knifed eight lifetimes ago
and that i gotta obsess on it and you know i think you just gotta deal with it right now but the fact is that i
i think there are some previous traumas that can come in and and i think there’s a pure essence in the baby
but so i don’t know whether it wakes up or remembers or who knows how it works
but i do think that that i do know that that that we were taught in india
that that um if you’re feeling depressed it isn’t necessarily your depression
well that’s right and this goes into just the broader spiritual teaching of not really taking anything personally
right uh the benefits of that because in a way it’s it’s not really personal
um anything right yeah absolutely absolutely but it is personal in the sense that you really
feel it and the fact is is that uh i can say that i don’t particularly like bridges i don’t like heights i think
bridges are really good to look at but not so good to go over and i limit
which bridges i go over so maybe that was from this life i mean if
anything wasn’t from this life it would kind of be that and it’s and it’s like i’m not putting all my eggs in that and
i don’t have to i don’t have to uh you know have a have a uh
uh you know puja over it but the thing is is that you know i wouldn’t say it’s all
this particular time you know things sneak in it’s a it’s a real good point about the
past lives but the bridges is interesting because i know there’s some overpasses here and i’m uh in the middle
of the country it’s uh st louis missouri i mean just uh if the traffic light is on an overpass that’s over the
interstate and sometimes i can feel that when the wind’s blowing i can feel my car just very slightly moving you know
it’s like wait should it be doing that or you get a big truck or a lot of weight on there it’s like oh boy
but that’s no i think you want it you wanted to be doing that well that’s right good point very good
logical point because if it didn’t do that would be more brittle right yeah yeah but now the past life thing is
fascinating because yeah you you you we meet these people uh i shouldn’t all these people right we’ve all met
somebody who’s just really kind of obsessed with the past life and they won’t i mean it’s just like oh they’re
just uh it’s just in a past life i was this because of this it’s kind of like the thing well my
parents you know because of my parents well yeah and how much clinging is there to that and
also you know maybe for like me who hasn’t really got into past life memories yet and i haven’t even done a
regression um that you know it’s okay either way that but if it is from a
previous uh incarnation right that will show up or reflect somehow in us if
it’s significant to be cleared anyway so right to really have a vivid
memory or recall or detail of it happening i don’t think this is necessary as long as we can address what
its influences are in this very life here and now right that’s that’s my opinion and and another
aspect of this that i thought you were going to bring up is that when we run into people that we we kind of feel like
we’ve known before that’s like you did all these different flavors of deja vu right
yeah you know i met i met some people i met my wife in india and the ashram
and that was pretty instant i met a uh i traveled with a young woman years ago
and uh somebody told us we’ve been married four times you know and and we came from uh
different parts of the world in different ages and there was there was just something uh
you know that just happens that you can’t really explain and you don’t need to explain that the point is is that you you uh
you you yeah you you neither believe nor you do
you disbelieve and that’s right and you know that it feels deep it feels like there’s
a depth and that depth maybe is in present time
very good point i mean if you think if there is no i mean a lot of metaphysical questions are kind of put to rest with
if there’s no discernible beginning or no discernible end well then that means you we could have been done everything
we could have been everybody everything multiple times so i mean just the possibilities are just they’re pretty
much endless of what could have happened or what will happen if that would cycle after cycle right and uh
yeah it’s it’s it’s really um you know as far as past life stories i’ve had a friend
and she and her husband and she was saying that you know the three of us had
been you know um involved in several lifetimes where we would all just be in
different relationships together uh in one thing and you hear this stuff and you hear all these even scientific
studies where they’ll take a a small child and they will tell stories to their parents about oh i used to be you
know this person in this village and this is what my place looked like and this was what my life looked like or something like that and you know none of
them have ever been there in this lifetime but they go there and it’s exactly as it says and their story after
story recorded about this yeah absolutely yes absolutely
amazing thing this life oh indeed say the least right so this love i guess this third modality uh the
wheel of totality now this is the one i haven’t heard about before so i’m interested in this too
okay so this is not surprising you haven’t heard about this so this is i don’t know anybody else that
does this but me but uh so the idea here is is that you
that that each house contains awareness on the highest level
and their their monday their the month astrology that we practice is the mundane of these awarenesses so like so
like the tenth house in the wheel of totality is love and when that gets that’s the action in the world and so in
mundane astrology that’s your career and so the idea is that each house contains awareness but if you don’t have a planet
there then that awareness is a blank spot for you and so i overlay the the
the natal chart onto the wheel of totality and i’m able to express uh where you have awareness what
qualities you have and abilities at and what qualities you don’t and
the the qualities are the first house is uh uh discovering who you really are
and and this is the uh uh if you have that ability then you
work on discovering who you are and if you don’t have a planet there then then then identifying yourself as is a bit of
a you know a pin the tail on the donkey blindfolded you know i can’t really find
myself and so the second house is is duality and so the the people that have a planet
there they can live in gray but the people that don’t have a planet they tend to live in black and white that
things are either right or wrong or good or bad and they and they have a limited they have they can be judgmental i mean
you can be judgmental for a few different ways but this is a really good way to get judgmental is when you don’t have a planet in two
and then you start living in black and white and limiting yourself and limiting your points of
view uh is really hard that’s a that’s like an oil that really keeps the engine
going when you don’t have that one it’s hard so three is about mind is the ability to be able to see
through the stories of the mind and the fourth is about heart
and it’s about it’s about being grounded enough to be able to open our heart to to feel not only compassion for
everybody else which is easy but compassion for the self which isn’t so easy
and and so yeah when you don’t have compassion for the self then you you sit in the
suffering that that is needless because if you have the compassion that you can give
you can give sally that compassion in that space but you can’t give it to yourself and so five is is god and and god is
about eventually realizing that there’s a cosmic intelligence and when you realize
that then you can accept what is and you can trust what is but if you don’t have a planet there then you have trouble
trusting and accepting what is and so you’re always hesitant and and and uh you can be controlling uh
this is the anti-control six is about practice it uh it starts as meditating or doing
yoga and it ends as 24 7 living in undisturbed consciousness that on the mat and off the mat have to be the same
this is the uphills of life it’s the physical plane difficulties in a mundane astrology but practice that is the
that is the opportunity to to to overcome the difficulties that we have to keep practice put it beating our head
against the wall that’s the sixth house the seventh house is seeing through conditioning people that don’t have a
planet there have trouble seeing through conditioning and so they have they have a a
uh a difficulty because they’re they’re they’re shadow boxing stories that aren’t even theirs
and they have they can they can see it when you point it out to them but it’s
really hard for them to discern especially after you know 30 40 50 years
what’s my story and what isn’t my story because they don’t have a planet there
so it makes it difficult and uh the eighth house is uh no separation
it’s about that there is no other it’s about the realization that we’re all connected and in that connection is the
is the uh ability to uh to
um to not feel separate to not get stuck stuck in separate stories that were
separate and isolated and alone and nine is about emptiness it’s about i
like to use the example of nature and so if you have a planet there well everybody can feel emptiness in nature
but the people that don’t have a planet by the time they get back to the car they’re thinking about what am i going to get at the grocery store and what am
i going to make for dinner they lose that sense of emptiness the people that have a planet there can stay in that emptiness
and can get into it without being in nature the tenth house is love love becomes an attitude
it doesn’t need an object it’s just a way of being it’s it’s not uh directional towards anybody it’s not
directional towards anything it’s just uh it’s just an energy that fills uh every everywhere and everything and uh
for you and the 11th house is realization this is a difficult one
needless to say it’s the surrender the realization that that that starts with
uh feeling one with the sunset and then it’s the realization that the fruit grows on trees
and then it’s the realization that that the fruit ripens and falls on the ground and it’s
the ultimate thrust being 11 opposite from five the little trust that that i
am always protected it’s the ability to be able to the people that don’t have a planet there
have have a a lid on their ability to progress
because they they can’t they they they they again they have trouble with control
because they they they don’t realize that they’re not actually in charge there is no in charge
and the 12th house is about changes it’s transcendence and impermanence that everything changes and then and that and
and and permanent and transcendence is that ever things change right away and so people that don’t have a planet there
they don’t do well with change they they uh they uh
they limit their they limit themselves by this and by this uh lack of vision
and so and so so uh you’re not stuck they’re not easy
uh i tell the people uh tell clients the ones they have and they think oh this isn’t so bad and then i tell them the
ones they don’t have and it’s not so easy but uh but about at about late 40s and
50s we start working on these and why is that is because in 20s and 30s we’re building up our ego and we’re not really
interested in our deficiencies so that’s the wheel of totality it’s a it’s a
very powerful a very high vibration uh teaching and
it kind of takes your breath away because i’ve worked it with probably 500 people
and it just hits based on the formula of
using the the sidereal charge and uh and whether they have planets or not
it’s only the inner planets and i use the north and south node of the moon but i don’t use the outer planets because
they are like you were talking before the generational and that’s a different kind of astrology
well right on that’s beautiful indra and um i guess we’ll start
wrapping up a little bit here i i don’t know it’s almost like now i i feel like i
have to um not have to but i’m definitely more fascinated and maybe getting a maybe a
sample reading or something but who knows what we can maybe discuss that off air or something but is there anything
else you want to wrap up and then also give people your contact information how
people can get in touch with you and any other thing else you’d like to plug or promote here
well um i just to think the thing is is that uh so we shift from galactic gases
do we shift into into modalities and very uh
practicality and and and groundedness and so the fact is is that they’re both
they’re not only are they in essence the same but they go hand in
glove and the idea of the galactic gases is is that it is beautiful but in order
to be able to get there in order to be able to increase our frequency so that we can enjoy it more that rather than
have just our foot in the door we can actually be invited in and sit and sit down at a comfortable chair
as it were as a metaphor the thing is is that that’s what the modalities are for that we have to do we have to keep doing
our work is that the the the you know the the hollywood overnight success
who’s been working for 20 years this is the nature of it and and uh years ago in
india i was told and this is i think really powerful is that most of people’s
awakening what they what people have when they call when they have an awakening experience
i’ve heard that called a pre-awakening experience and that it takes
you know 15 or 20 years of study and and balancing in order to
be able to come back to that place that you were at and understand it in its depth and we
use the example of ramana the famous indian teacher who had a near-death
experience at 16 and was enlightened and he still meditated in a cave for 19
years by himself and and so people who uh not pointing at anybody but from my
point of view being on the path so long that there’s a there’s a a naivete as it
were probably not the right word but uh not trying to make a judgment but just uh that there’s a that there’s a stage
as it is more of a stage and that that’s the the awakening is when you touch into
something but the idea is to be able to make it of you that you’re always there
and so and so that’s why the galactic gases and the modalities fit together so
i have a website indrarinzler.com i have an email indra
rinzler uh they’re both all one word at gmail.com
i like to offer on the podcast that if people want their vedic chart like you had your vedic chart i i’m
happy to send it to people uh so that um just email me your birth time date and
place and i’ll send you back your chart and a little thing on how to read it and i thought today that uh i didn’t even
realize that i could offer the the the enneagram tests and so i have a simple
one-page you know five or ten minute enneagram test that that i’d be happy to send to people too
just send me an email and ask for those um let’s see anything else um
yeah just you know this is this is a challenging time this is the best of
times this is the worst of times uh this is you know we’ve been waiting for this
for millennium uh you know i’ve been waiting 50 years and
i don’t even know what it is you know this could be the culmination who knows
you know we’ve been waiting for the earthquake the big earthquake in california for a long time
not to you know knock on wood but the thing is is that it doesn’t really matter what it is the fact is is that
this is today and and tomorrow will also be today and and um
this is is to make the most of it whatever you need to do if i can help you in any way i’m very happy to do that
if people have questions i’m easy to reach and i have facebook that i have a
big thing that people will look me up and and go there’s a lot to read on there
well right on i plan to put those in the show notes and um yeah this this uh
this thing about it it’s uh this notion of endless awakening too and even in zen you’ve got the
the things of like um was it uh sudden awakening and gradual
awakening and then this whole notion of integration too right and expansion and
just ongoing um so yeah it really is a really is a it’s a beautiful way to to
wrap up and um indra it’s been an honor and a pleasure i i learned so much and it’s uh kind of a privilege to
finally uh finally get to the point where i can meet more um you know uh wise elders on the path too and learn
and grow and be counseled so uh thank you so much well thank you very
much josh for having me a pleasure to be with you and and uh god helping god so um
much love and blessings thank you you’re welcome bye now