At the beginning of February 2023 Randi Green and I did a couple more recordings on somewhat Buddhist related topics in addition to our chat New Inner Domain Races and New Intervention Protocol. Besides the topics listed in the title this first one starts off addressing dukkha, but we really wait until the second chat (part 2) to dive into dukkha more deeply and from more angles. In this one, amongst other things there’s also (mentions of):
- (My) various disclaimers and approaches including inviting corrections
- Parallels and comparisons to the Christian gospels
- Rajas
- Nagas
- Essence
- Importance of and methods for studying texts including:
- etymology
- word roots
- syntax
- context
- various meanings
- cross-referencing
- changing definitions
- being turned into an “-ism”
- truth and reality
- avoidance and non-avoidance
- various facets of trauma and those qualifications for working with it
- poem Autobiography in Five Short Chapters by Portia Nelson:
Chapter I
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost… I am hopeless.
It isn’t my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.Chapter II
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don’t see it.
I fall in again.
I can’t believe I am in this same place.
But it isn’t my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.Chapter III
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it there.
I still fall in… it’s a habit… but,
my eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.Chapter IV
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.Chapter V
I walk down another street.
poem Autobiography in Five Short Chapters by Portia Nelson
- Buddha leaving his wife and child
- The Buddha’s teachers and (fellow) practitioners
- Who the Buddha taught and how he did it
- Mendicant lifestyle
- Authenticity of the Buddhist texts including accuracy, errors when copying texts
- Oral teaching traditions
- No native Pali speakers
- Lack of consensus of meaning on some Pali words
- Time period differences
- Kamma, (fruits of) past actions [12 types of kamma]
- Randi’s YouTube series My Take on Buddhism
- Value of meditation, contemplation, loving-kindness, compassion, equanimity and other Buddhist practices
- Call to directly investigate Buddhist cosmos today
- A specific symbol appearing in the light in the center of the head
- Various Buddhist cosmological beings
- Where and how did the Buddha gain all his knowledge and wisdom?
- Levels (or rings) of the Buddha’s entourage and followers: his attendant, chief disciples, monks of the order, lay practitioners and commoners
- Some of Randi’s YouTube series and channels:
- A few of Randi’s projects and work:
- Progression Sciences coursework
- the 2023 Higher Order Systemic Energetic New Reality (HOSE NR) Challenges Updates this video is from
- Food Health and Environment project
- Changemaker Project
- Stargate course (see also: https://integratingpresence.com/2022/12/04/mapped-stargates-grids-portals-hubs-pillars-bridges-networks-and-vortex-locations)
- THE SYSTEMIC-ENERGETIC AWARENESS FORUM The Systemic-Energetic Awareness Forum at Randigreen.one
- Group calls for The HAL Progression Work Group Class 2023
Audio: Trauma, Teachings And Textual Interpretations: Buddhism And Beyond With Randi Green (Part 1)
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
hold us this is Josh dippold from integrating presence today I have Randy green again with me Randy what’s going
on how are you I’m fine thank you and thank you for having me you’re welcome and so we’re gonna we’re gonna try
something different here um Randy’s done a long Series in the past it’s called my
take on Buddhism I’ll have her talk a little bit about that series when I throw it back over to her but we’re
gonna go straight into the core of what some people call Buddhism right which is
the Four Noble Truth and specifically focus on uh dukha or what some people
translate as stress suffering unsatisfactorness those are the big translations and just to preface it here
too it’s um it’s also known as a chariot
wheel where the axles are out of place and so you get a rough bumpy ride right this just kind of feeling that it’s
having a hard time moving through your environment right and then also until I
just throw it up here and we’ll go back more into detail with this Duca and Suka
Suka means happiness are is usually translated as happiness right but the
thing is with this the do prefix means negative Su means positive and Ka means
no Essence so do Ka would be negative but no Essence kind of literally right
and then Suka Su would be positive but no Essence either so that’s a
fascinating topic we possibly will explore here before we jump into this topic though
just kind of know that obviously this is the standard disclaimers this is
obviously my understanding of these teachings and with some practice I’m not a I don’t consider myself a Buddhist
even though I’ve studied more of the tarabada stuff than anything else and I
do practice have a daily meditation practice for since 2012. um also we when I draw on the text and
the things I’m talking about it’s a mix between my own practice and stuff that I’ve studied right but we have to be
able and willing to completely at the Forefront like I heard Biko andalio recently say we have to
um say we don’t know for sure if this is authentic text right we have to be willing to say yeah I have no idea if
the Buddha actually said these things or talked about these things if there’s a historic figure if someone did achieve
the highest levels of alignment we don’t know for sure right we weren’t there and then tracing the authenticity of what he
said and how it was how accurate of what he said during his lifetime or whatever when he taught how accurate it was then
to what we’re what we have now uh either in the poly or the translations and the translations and another huge ball of
wax so just put that that way and also it’s also known that these uh text you
know the Buddha said is that well you’re not it’s like a raft the teachings his
teachings are like a raft once you cross the flood um once they’re they’re um
once you’ve used them for what you’re supposed to use them for you’re not supposed to carry them or carry them
around further than that you leave the raft on the shore and so you can go on so that’s important to keep in mind too
now Randy’s unique abilities um she has a gift into
um um I guess maybe seeing and knowing things that are beyond the text behind the text under the text applying them to
things that a lot of people don’t really have access to so that’s another unique Dynamic and I’m sure there’s a few
things that I’m missing here with the with the um my intro but I think that’s
enough for now um I guess so Randy maybe you can talk a little bit about your your series on
Buddhism how you approach this and maybe you’ve talked about a past life that
you’ve had as a Buddhist monk how that might factor in here and then how you have you haven’t studied formally what
this is but you you you know how all that plays in I think that’s enough on the plate for now and how we can lead
that into the uh our discussion about Duca yes um two thing comes to mind I’ll return
to the whole Suka duka thing um first and foremost I’m a psychotherapist I’m a formal
psychotherapist I’m working with a client since 2000 7 so that factors in as well because there’s a lot of what we
understand as Buddhism in the western world that has an equivalent in modern psychology and if I’m not going to speak
on the behalf of Buddhist monks but I recall different types of scientific studies where they have actually worked
with Buddhist monks for instance focusing the meditation on the frontal lobe which we now know as part of the
the the what what Freud would call the the over self or the one that confronts
us with choosing the right approach to navigate through our chaos of emotions
of the limbic system our primitive levels of the the little brain as I will call it in English you’re not using the
Latin words the instinctual emotional layer and I work with that in my teaching material as well saying well we
do have the front rope if you do focus on the frontal lobe meditate on the frontal Loop or do energy work on the
frontal lobe you will actually amplify the study I recall and I’m sorry I can
not remember that who did it or where it was done when it was done with which type of Buddhist monks I’m sorry about
that should have gained given the source of that one but just take this for granted that these Buddhist monks that
were part of that experiment could get the frontal Loops after I think it was 65 Hertz or something that it goes into
the gamma range so we can change our brain waves by doing meditation which
can be used in many different ways psychologically or as in a work or as a path to Enlightenment so we kind of know
today we could say we have actual signs that in a way backs up the Buddhist
practice of meditation of mindfulness of working with calming the inner voice become the
Observer look into what does it mean to be human in this world how can we develop ourselves as a human being and
that’s that’s why I incorporate the Buddhist line of thought this is called it Buddhism because in a way it’s kind
of being a practitioner of the path to Enlightenment which is a little bit long to savor time but being a practitioner
of a a teaching system that is not a teaching system it’s saying sayings that have
come from other practitioners on the path that has been given over generation
to generation to different practitioners either as tax material or as innocence
as things you achieve when you do your meditation practice when you contemplate
on different scenes on different words insights you get this understanding and
that is part of interestingly enough I studied at the Copenhagen university the the ancient Hebrew Bible I studied
Theology and that means there I learned the scientific method of looking into
words understand the root of the words working with the prefixes and the suffixes how the cultural setting where
the time not far from the same time around Buddhism or the rise of the Buddha and his
teachings and what his sayings have been incorporated into different text material the issue with the Hebrew Bible
and the gospels in Christianity not that I’m Christian at all I studied it for the purpose of scientific interest and
learning the scientific method of working with ancient texts not that we could say it’s the same but there are
similarities the way that the culture was around the time the way they approached different types of higher
order teaching systems we could see when we talk about Buddhism in my take is that it’s so much more advanced due to
the Hindu teaching system even though we could say that Buddhism is a kind of a counter to the Hindu teaching system
which is implied in the story about the Buddha himself it is a kind of a counter
to that he was from a royal family he was a righteous so he came from this royal family he had this this is where I
flipped quickly into the the extraordinary of things because for me a
Raja is connected to to the nagas which is a lineage actually an extraterrestrial limit so that’s my
other take on it that’s kind of is different than what most people have so
so thereby there are these insights that I’ve had in meditation when I began meditating in around 20 or 2000 actually
I began my meditation practice and what I discovered there including remembering
that past life as a Buddhist monk in 1959 which had a very unfortunate exit
and and in that kind of thing well I kind of have a knowledge here I don’t know where I have it from because yes I
did read Buddhist text when I was what the Danish equivalent I come from Denmark the Danish equivalent to to your
college in America and there was this kind of historical religion oriented and
I remember I actually went to the salmon college with that one where I got this this question about Christianity and
Buddhism the the similarities and the differences and I jumped right in and said well it’s the same and I remember
my my history religion teacher said no it’s not and then of course I got all stressed out and I didn’t get to prove
my brilliant points there but still today when when Josh and I have discussions about Buddhism it’s it’s
there’s so much similarity for me it could be in my mind that constructs it because the mind does that too it wants
to find patterns it wants to find similarities but there are definitely uh things that are very very similar I know
when we talk about Buddhism that the the I know that from Josh they’re talking about past life is a little bit of a
no-go well I will get to the nuances of why it’s so important and why it’s there’s
taboo around it too yeah yes so we we could we could touch crown with that too but what I want to say
um the other thing I wanted when you talk about sukat does it mean uh
positive no Essen or does it mean positive essence if you look at this oh I didn’t know
yeah so uh Ka it means no Essence it does mean lack of essence okay lack of
essence so basically my understanding of that is if we want to jump okay now I get it okay sorry about it I had a
little bit of aha moment here okay so but it’s good to take that into when we talk about the ancient text because one
of the things that the ancient cultists were brilliant at which we don’t have to the same degree today is that they
played with the words they always had several layers of meaning to each word so that’s why it’s so important when we
work with the ancient text that we don’t just take what the scholars have decided that this is suffering or this is this
is a painful or whatever it is because when we work with the ancient text and I know for somehow somewhere I don’t know
why but the I know for certainty that the Buddha played with the words to initiate contemplation to put us into
that state of of wonder what is behind this what what does this mean so we
would contemplate played on the word itself we could spend hours and services saying we but spending hours on the the
the word do care in itself as in being the the absence or being the the
existence of uh what do you say sorry forgot it again no in no Essence yeah
yeah so the the there that that no no Essence is so okay so yeah Duke duka
this is this actually came from a um a monk that taught at a class I audited
um one time in real life and so I hadn’t heard this before but this was the
understanding of the the prefix do and and Sue so uh do is negative uh uh um
Sue is positive and Ka means no essence or lacking Essence without Essence so
um so duka would be it’s a negative but there’s no Essence to it uh Suka would
be it’s positive but there’s no s so I think the overall what he was getting at what was getting
at is this is that if you really examine something even though it feels positive
and it is positive but it would have to have a lasting Essence for it to be more
permanent but because things don’t have a because of the changeable nature of
compounded things right it’s impossible for that to be there all the time we’re going to have moments of you know and
negativity and positivity happiness suffering stress but just because
there’s no Essence we can’t extract something put it in a bottle and keep it forever and say that’s what it is now I
can reproduce it in a lab each time and have total control over it right so that’s one way I I mean that can be
totally awful that’s how I see in essence right something that I know for sure it I have total control and it will
last and be like that forever you know and never dissipate always be permanent like that but due to the nature of that
you know so that way happiness can come and go and stress and suffering can come and go now I’m talking about on a
relative uh level of reality here of course right this would only apply to a relative level or kind of our day-to-day
we have happiness and sadness these things like this or our stress I shouldn’t say sadness because that’s not
the same so yeah so that’s what I’m putting so if you want to pick back up on that because I have a quite a bit of things to pick
up on what you said that just spurred good things to to mention here the only thing I wanna I wanna kick in here and
that’s completely unscientific but it’s still interesting intrigues me though because we could say well how were there
any connection whatsoever between India and Egypt and and science would say yes they did trade yes there were kind of of
trade routes and yes we had migrants and yes people were absolutely communicating which we’re getting more and more into
in science today and now that I’m going to draw on science and say this is scientific but the interesting thing is
that in Egyptian mythology Ka means the soul yes of course so so that’s just an
interesting little thing there and the Buddha is known for um actually re you know redefining words putting his twist
on it right taking a word that people have been so locked into thinking of it for this way and now he he gives his
definition of it that completely flips the script he was brilliant at that and actually some of your teachings I see
parallels in that by by having your own definitions for something that’s a a long-standing concept that these people
are just kind of in a rut with it but know you kind of like jolt them and say okay well look at it you know it’s it’s
kind of pointing to that but this is the way that seems maybe more helpful or look at it this way instead of just the
same old thing on autopilot right yes so that’s why where words become important also when we study ancient texts and
that’s some of the things I learned at the University when we studied the Hebrew Bible the enormous importance of the root of the word and how it is used
in sentences and and what is put before the word and after the word and in in what context because the same word can
have a plethora of meanings absolutely so so that’s I think that’s one of the the most important takeaways for people
that want to study this today and they just read what other what the scholars have decided is the word and we can say
quite a lot of the ancient texts the scholars didn’t know what it was but then they got their or set a stone or something or whatever they they have
come to they have agreed on certain words mean that because they have looked into the text this is how it’s been used
again and again in that sentence so that is what it must mean but it’s not the same as it actually does mean it it’s a
huge point because um there’s a site called Pure puredhamma.net and he makes this huge
thing he shows that these early European scholars they really don’t have any context for they came across these texts
and they’re trying to translate them without deep practice without cultural immersion without all these other things
that they’re lacking and so he shows kind of the inaccuracies of these early European translations in certain key
points you know and that’s another thing there’s there’s poly words and the polycanon that people just they don’t
have any consensus on hardly whatsoever some people might translate it can so
far off from what others you know and even that even if there is a strong consensus on a word I think we we need
to be our Scholars need to be open to consider looking at it other ways right
from grounds you’re always be able to rip everything apart and start from zero if they’re if they’re really serious
about it um so a few a few things now going back um this name this is another
pet peeve of mine this name Buddhism so it turns it into another ISM you can call it whatever you want we’ll call it
that for now but at the core of this I’m only really interested in the true nature of reality right and for the
reasons of my benefit and the benefit of others and for everybody and for ending
you know the stress and suffering and unsatisfactoryness uh and because if we
don’t know what’s true then it’s it’s hard to really take any action because we don’t you know it’s it’s almost a
waste of time now it also it’s it’s important may I please yes I just want
to put that in there so people kind of because the whole when when we talk why why practice uh the the the cessation of
duker or learning how to to work with reality observe reality be in the now
being mindful learning how to deal with the inner emotions and you say to end and this is interesting because this is
where my mind quickly jumps into on its own avoidance avoid suffering so so
that’s that’s not what it is because as I work with this one in my teaching system is that we kind of work with we
confront what’s there as a psychotherapist we don’t avoid painful things we don’t avoid our childhood traumas if we want to heal we have to
confront it of course not everything as a psychotherapist I work with people where I did the assessment that that
person is completely functional and it would be detrimental to that person to go into some childhood trauma that’s
better off hidden and stoved away but most people when they have when it
bleeds through when it comes into their their everyday life and it makes it difficult for them to be in life be with
other people and it keeps coming in as this reappearing childhood trauma that defines real ability creates stress
creates frustration creates negative outcome of all the interaction potentials as I call it makes a kind of
what we call a negative narrative about who and what we are then we must address
it then we must work with it because we must confront that constant it’s called
a cognitive scheme that plays in and distorts our perception of reality our
encounters with others and our understanding of who and what we are as people and that’s the same ideas we find
in in when we talk about avoidance of suffering which is not or ending of suffering as I kind of say
well it is a very early type of psychology whereas we could say we are not going to go to the gospels but that
has another thing too that’s not literally psychology in the same manner we can’t make the same
um what do you call it connections as we can with Buddhists there is this kind of it’s clear this is a way to work with
yourself to achieve a higher potentiality of who and what you are as a human being so that’s where that’s why
I often go to Buddhism and not deliberately and not knowingly used
Buddhist ideas and and Concepts but it just melts into my psychology training
as a substantial psychotherapist there’s so many good points with this too and so if we’re looking at that it’s it’s not
all or nothing like you have to face it all the time because some things are so overwhelming right just in everyday life
now I well since neither of us are technically trauma informed right in the
traditional sense we’re going to set that aside because uh you know a lot of the things that we talk about it doesn’t
really apply in the same way with trauma so we’ll just that caveat right yes and so there’s I want to put in this yes I
am schooled in trauma but not as I’m not working as a trauma cycle therapist there’s a difference there because when
you do work with with trauma casualties of War there are different levels of trauma which we don’t need to go into I
just want a million yes I have I’ll definitely yeah I do work with childhood trauma so
and that goes into sexual abuse and the whole spectrum of that but I haven’t worked with people in war Trauma from
war or trauma from what we call life and death situations out there but the psychological trauma of being in a
stressful environment as a child that is just as traumatizing for many people so there are different degrees of trouble
yes and there’s also different um sectors in society that you to work
with trauma in a certain way in society you have to be licensed and all this stuff and improved to do so but then
there’s other healing modalities where it’s more acceptable to deal with trauma in other ways too so so to come back
around here to the uh so these approaches for dealing with
these things the other thing that occurred was that in once um let’s say we do um have we we have faced certain
challenges in life that are very stressful and um well one one way to
illustrate this is a little classical thing that I’ll just say here but before
I do that it’s like well let’s say we have addressed things and it’s it’s going well now how often do we want to
keep revisiting it you know because sometimes we can get back in the same rut so the the little thing is I was
walking down the street I fell in a hole okay then I came back I walked down the street again I saw the same hole but I
fell in it anyway the third time I I saw the the hole in the street uh and then I
walked around the hole and I kept going the fourth time I saw the street and I didn’t even go down the street right
yeah so that would be avoidance complete I avoid the street because
exactly so that’s the healthy form avoidance but but you actually have the experience the real life experience so
then you know it’s not the avoidance like a psychological term like I’m putting it off and bypassing it don’t
want to deal with it because I’m too afraid or don’t know it’s there no you have the actual experience now you see oh I’ve already been down that path to
do that I know what that’s about that leads to nowhere so I’m going to you know not yeah avoid that street so it’s
a different type of avoidance then oh this is just too much I can’t take this I don’t want to spend the time to to
work on myself thanks so that’s a very important distinction but it’s also interesting when we talk about a little
bit about confronting things and see things as they truly are but kind of with that I could almost in my head make
this okay I have this using your analogy of the road which is funny sorry I think it’s a little bit funny it is it is this
kind of way okay I got this this wrote this path that is a kind of a symbol of a path of life and there’s a hole in
that path and I’m walking down that path and I’m being mindful I’m observing the environment the energies and what’s
going on there and then there’s that hole and I fell into it the first time because I was not I was absent-minded I
was not there in the press and so I didn’t see the holes I fell into it so the next time I go there I would use my
mindful practice and I would say okay this is the road this is a symbolic representation every reality there is a
hole there how do I approach that go to the whole look into the whole what what does it mean to me what is the
experience of that whole how can I adjust with to the experience and the environment with the path that is a hole
in it that go all berserk in contemplation of reality and holes and falling into them and being
absent-minded and can not as in yes I can’t I can’t transform matter reality
but I can transform my approach to the whole I can look at the whole I can recall the experience and I can look at
it as an experience of being absent-minded instead of looking at it as an experience of pain and suffering
and I felt that and what the and then just to go in and say no this is interesting why was I that absent-minded
because I need to be present in my body present in reality present in my
experience of reality and if I had been that I would observe the whole and I
would have walked around it and I wouldn’t have got about trauma or suffering or pain or frustration and
this is the investigative quality and this is a requirement for awakening to look to ask
these questions you know to examine it and to go over it and yeah so that’s investigation that’s very well needed in
how we view it and how we respond to it right too yes yes and because yeah just going into those pity party stories
that’s actually suffering because that’s optional we don’t have to add that on right yeah and it makes things worse it’s painful enough to just be around
that hole and maybe fall into it too right yes and if sorry and if we kind of if we kind of tie that into childhood
trauma there we say it’s different because as a child you don’t have the choice you don’t have the choice to say
as we have as a grown-up well we can be in Mindful and look at and and discern
reality as children we are forced into these circumstances and that’s why it creates trauma on a childhood basis is
that you’re not victimized that’s the wrong word but when you are a child you are in a family setting you can’t just
walk out the door and say hey I’m out of here because you see the parents so we have to endure and that’s where the
defense mechanism comes in that’s why where we create this narrative where we delude ourselves to say our powers are
good parents because as a child you can’t cope with that you have shitty parents so you try to find the good
stuff and that’s that’s where psychology differs a little bit from Buddhism because that’s why we go and say okay
there are all these defense mechanisms we we create Comfort zones we create
scenarios that allows us to exist in that stressful environment yes anything
we can to get their love right our parents love and approval because we’re dependent on that for survival yes so
that’s children can tune in very well what they need to do to get that from their parents and sometimes you know it
just means acting out because they get the most attention right away in the most powerful so that’s another thing
sometimes with that yeah but I just wanted to put in here so that when we do continue here that those of you who are
listening out there that have childhood trauma that you don’t think oh I just need to do meditation and mindful
practice and then I’m all good to go because they’re they are different in their Dynamics the psychodynamics are
different there’s a difference between working in mindfulness and observation as a grown-up where we use the frontal
lobes whereas you as a child you are an Olympic instinctual level so that’s very
biological primitive in a way where the response mechanism is is tailored all
around what we could say fight or flight or survival or how do I cope with this because I have nowhere to go so it’s a
confinement situation in a way to put a very strongly so so the Dynamics are
different this is a totally amazing Point too because you know the the Buddhist teachings that are handed down
as far as I know he actually abandoned his wife right so I mean I wonder if psychologists say well he has abandonment issues right so most of
these teachings obviously are geared towards adults not children right even you know I think his son rahula met like
Burton you know or something like that which is really interesting however he did later become the and join the order
supposedly and regain full enlightening but but it doesn’t you know so we don’t we don’t I think there’s very little
known about the Buddha’s own childhood which is another interesting thing as far as I’m known I mean with the um you
know some people say they might be able to piece things together through these jyotica Tales which who knows is the
authenticity of those those are later and I don’t think they’re included in the core can and I could be wrong about that but these are all these supposed
stories of the Buddhist past life so that all that set aside so yeah that is uh a whole nother um yeah ball of wax
that are can of worms that we probably ought not to open up but yeah one other thing is that the children’s
programs at Buddhists I have I haven’t set in on them in in real life I have seen them and I’m just I just want to
say that I don’t know what to say about those you know they I I I’m open to suggestions about how Buddhists could do
things with their children’s programs that’s another thing I would say meditation meditation definitely and and
being observant in the now and being focused in the now and but anyways that’s not what that’s
that’s a completely different but the the as far as the tax material go as far as I remember what I read the years ago
is that that the Buddha looked at his son and he says that he is like a chain around his foot and that’s where the
name came from he felt tied in in marriage in the the the royalty he had
the whole circumstances about being a royal being being confined in the castle not having
any Touch of ground or with the with his subjects is his people he was supposed to take care of so he went out and
looked and he saw all of these people and saw all of these different suffering and aging and disease and all things he
wasn’t confronted with in his safe upbringing in the castle but I want to put a little twist to that because I
talked about that in both on my my free podcast series and past lives as well
under some of the the chakra system because the chakra system is tied to Hinduism and he is supposedly going
against Hinduism and the priesthood after brahiman lineages as I call them
in my language that he was a writer so he was an ability we must not forget the
fact that he was royalty and that means he grew up with education he grew up
with he was being taught by sages by wisdomen or with the people most men
um so he would have had educational level that nobody else would have had and that is play I think that plays into
the way he perceives reality the way he’s able to process information compared to the Layman he was teaching
they were farmers they were out they had no education whatsoever they couldn’t even write they couldn’t read they could
barely speak the Royal language they would speak they wouldn’t speak Pali they would they would speak or the
temple language or whatever language there is they would be the Commerce language so there’s this whole you have
this hugely Highly Educated Elite nobility Royal person that goes out and
get a kick in the butt sorry for putting you that that way by reality and then ask the questions what is this and then
decide to leave his wife and his money and everything behind and then look for the the truth of nature of reality and
why there is this aging and and despair and disease and all these kind of things asking himself these questions and that
in itself is an interesting psychodynamic because yeah dude you have it all why leave it all behind and why
why go against leaving your wife and your son behind which meant he he absolutely what you called it from them
too yes in in you what you have an English word for you you Dethrone yourself as you do that word instead and
go out and look for it so as we know from from some of the the ancient Greek
nobilities they often had this this Sage that were teaching them the philosopher that came and taught them stuff as we
know with I think it’s actually um Alexander the Great he had a he had a
I can’t remember the stories but he had one of these wisdom teachers as well that led him into through the search for
uniting the countries around him thinking that religion in his Essence were from
derived from the same the gods were technically more or less the same he created the idea of synchrony what we
call the sing chronicity sorry about that I’m translating Danish words here where he were trying to unify all
religion say well Sues and and Allah or or whatever not Allah was not there at
the time but Sues and and the the Jewish god were technically the same or the Egyptian gods of the Osiris and Zeus
were the same but from different cultural settings they were interpreting in a different way and Alexander knew
that because he had a philosopher that told him and I think that the Buddha already in childhood had another wisdom
person which we don’t know of that gave him some foundational ideas so when he was confronted and he went out he had
already that mindset to not look at it from the typical perspective of a royal
person as in kind of this is just how it is they are just the commoners I’m the king and they are just my subjects and
whatever our laws will run this system right very good points that plenty to
pick up on before I even Circle back to the stuff before so and this reminds me
right just just pick up where you left off at is um I don’t remember the exact details but there was um a sage that was
came around the Buddha’s birth or when he was younger or something and he started crying they asked him why he was crying because he said well he will um
maybe I’m mixing a few different stories here but um because he wouldn’t live long enough
to see that either the Buddha could become one of this great uh ruler you
know or or this amazing Sage but he wouldn’t live long enough to see this
um and yeah yeah and I just want to say here please uh call and call in I think
he’s going to call in but you know there are ways to call in to leave me a message but write in make Corrections
because I I welcome Corrections so that I want to put out disinformation here too and just know that things might
differ slightly with Randy’s text uh Randy’s take from the actual text and of
course I probably get a lot of things wrong too um but what I remember that that story
about the the royalty I’m trying to think of now where some people are saying that might be from somewhere else
or something at a later time but there’s also uh or maybe that was just the four Heavenly Messengers but I’m not sure but
I think there there’s definitely some connection there but as far as the um the teachers the the the the the the
teachers for sure so he when he left he he went and studied under the best
meditation Masters at the time right it said that he mastered all that and it didn’t take him to the full Awakening
that he that he said that’s so he left them and then he also went with this extreme group of practitioners these
ascetics for a while too and so he was uh he learned a lot from them as well
you know they all kind of helped each other but he realized that wasn’t the way as well too now as far as who who he
taught he supposedly walked in all kinds of circles of life he would do the commoners like there’s there’s Farmers
that he had discourses so it’s not like this he’s standing on a Pulpit preaching
to tons of people like in a sermon but he’s done that too but he would also give individual discourses to people
that would come to him and ask him questions or come to him with troubles and problems he even did this to Davis
too right they would allow certain amount of times according to the commentaries that where he would open it up to otherworldly would come and he’s
known as the teacher of men and Devas or Heavenly beings too so that was another
one of his titles um so and he also taught he was also summons by Kings too so he was you know
he could move in those circles too there’s times when he would go visit a king for whatever time and then go back into the forest and with his with his
practice with his uh Entourage of monks or whatever too that have joined the order supposedly yes which is very
similar to the stories that were made of around the character we know as Jesus it is the same idea we have this we have
the three wise men that comes as his birth which was at the Chaldeans where where we had wise uh wise men I don’t
know I want to call the wise men but the sages at the they were we had the priesthood we had the nobility we had
the commoners and we had the the wise men of the prophets we had that in the
cultural setting and we had it in Egypt we had it in India we had it so that’s the similarity we have the cultural
settings that are more or less similar yes like a priest class and there’s a merchant class Farmers too and then and
then um sometimes they lumped I think the Warriors in with the nobility too but yeah but the important thing to
understand is that both the farmers and the Warriors and the Tradesmen and not as much the Tradesmen but most of these
commoners were slaves so they were not free people they were under the slave of the king or the slave
of the landlord or the slave of the nobility or whoever owned the land they were living on so they were not Farmers
for themselves they were farming for their their landlord and what was left they could eat so we have this poverty
that we’re ruling the commoners or even the caste system in India even if it didn’t play out exactly there was the
caste system which is but it’s the same idea where you have which we have in all ancient cultures so that’s important to
take in so we don’t think that they were living that we are living today so when we talk about Farmers oh yeah we think
oh this is me have my own little farm no they were living seriously shitty lives so that’s important I also think there
is not that I’m saying it’s the same but Saint Paul when he was he was one of the teachers of Christianity later on from
the offshoot of the Jewish Branch he worked with the Greek people and one of
the the Greek Seekers of Christianity once it has shifted from being a Jewish cult into being what we can could call
for the heater and says well and saying Paul he did that teaching and he was also he was from from Taurus which is I
think it’s it’s turkey today and he he um he was this kind of guy that that
also had had this high level education used to be a Pharisee actor not to go into all these details point being is he
was a higher level educated man he knew how to he didn’t know how to write so he had other people writing things down for
him but he had educated himself into Greek philosophy and all sorts of things which has now been woven into
Christianity as we know of it but he had the problem of trying to teach something for for the Greek spoke speakers the
Greek language people sorry about that where he had difficulties in conveying the Jewish ideas to the Greek speaking
people and he had to invent words he had to invent ideas and where I want to go
with this is that when the Buddha as a royalty having studied old Hindu
philosophy we which is enormously high level compared to the time of the age familiar with all of that yes so he knew
all of these things and he was talking to lame and slaves that had no idea of
whatever how was he going to convey these ideas so so there must have been
where he used his practicality as what he learned from the gurus and when he he
was suffering himself or suffering himself he was starving himself put himself into all sorts of weird
experiences where he really pushed his body to the edge and discovered that was not the path the guru path was not to go
into this strict discipline of starvation and and just sitting still in
weird potions or positions sorry about that and then understanding you know
this this is different but how did he how did he put that together and and talk to these lay people so that’s
that’s why we kind of say when we discuss the teachings or the sayings or the mythology because you could be
made up all of it but if we go with the idea that the sayings might be accurate
to some degree because they were downsized for laymen for Lay people so
they could understand it so did he really convey his information or did he make it more simple so people could
understand it when things coming to mind if if he’s doing this lifestyle where he’s begging for his food so if I had to
beg for my food I would imagine though that I would be be very tuned in with all kinds of people in order to get fed
so the more I could relate to them and see how they are living their life then the more I strategy I might have come up
with of how to get food from them so that’s the other thing that comes to mind but that’s right so yeah it’s very
good points here and it’s the same interesting enough because there’s a saying the gospels where where Jesus sends out his disciples and he says to
them the only thing you have is your sandals on your feet and and the clothes you’re wearing and the knife in your
mouth out and you are to literally beg for food because that will teach you how
to be humble that will teach you the meaning of being a Healer and and preaching the word and the gospel
because that is also oriented around suffering interestingly enough absolutely so it is redemption as in you
need to suffer to redeem yourself to go back to the Heavenly Realms so that’s interesting it is and they don’t I’m
wondering about the knife and maybe we come back to that second but you know you cut the bread with a knife and and you can cut woods with a knife it’s a
tools of survival interesting that now I’m now I’m seeing parallels in in
the midwest in America where a lot of people carry a knife on them out in the so they can use it for all those
different things right yeah so it’s wild and then the the amount of Christianity in the midwest too and the the way the
the mindicates that’s a fancy word for basically you’re a beggar right I’m indicate and so they go out and look for
food but the way they look at it once you’ve joined the order too is that okay you’re you’re not just doing this on
your own because you’re a freeloader right you’re going there only during certain time there’s so many rules about
it so you’re not imposing you do it during certain times and then it’s like you’re reliant on the community so
you’re not completely removed and so usually people want something in return for that so it’s incentive to show that
you’re you know you will give teachings back you will give offerings or they sent uh what do they call it a chant and
they’ll offer them a chant and you know well wishes or whatever they might do in return I’ll freely offer teachings for
people to to benefit them more psychologically so they’re they’re supposed to be giving something back to
setting the example for the community these type of things and also knowing uh yeah that you’re you know you might not
eat that day either you know so that’s that when when the hunger is a part of stress too so they yeah you have to so
that’s that huge hold Dynamic now going into what you said about um um the how the similarities of uh
Christianity and and Buddhism there’s a there I did read a book and I wasn’t too
impressed actually honestly is uh Tech not Hans book living Buddha living Christ but in that book he goes to the
the parallelism that’s a whole other podcast on its own right but so just know that you’re not the only one right
it’s been it’s been uh I know and there’s also within the esoteric communities there are the ones that are
saying well Jesus did go to he was told by the people who come up oh you saw it
by the Buddha or the Buddha in in an enlightened version or or he went to India he was taught the Buddhist
teachings or of these kinds during The Missing Years yes exactly where was he at during the missing yes so and I’m
just saying that’s that’s taking from a scholar perspective that the gospels are made up stories they are not accurate
accounts of his living there might have been some sayings left but everything we know about that character that’s why I
call the character Jesus and there are things where we could say there might be proof that he actually did existed in
some of the Saint Paul’s texts where he says he goes to Jerusalem to meet with the brothers of Jesus but the question
is are we talking the brothers in spirit or are we talking astrophysical biological brothers and they claim it is
the physiological biological brothers so but we don’t know so the general understanding is that all of the sayings
are put into these what we call biographies that were made later on to
create a narrative a story to understand the sayings to put it into context where
he’s teaching where he’s saying this he’s teaching rabbis what have we and and whenever I read the stories about
the Buddha that’s where my mind goes right away these stories are made up I’m not taking them as literal accounts of
lay people who couldn’t read who couldn’t write these were the first monks having written it down no I don’t
see it that way I see it as something that’s been created later on so that’s another question consider that
absolutely because especially since uh the the going story is that the or it
was initially an oral tradition right it was just never written down but then and then people memorized it right so people
supposedly memorized exactly and they held the console as soon as he died and then they all got together okay this is
what the Buddha said and then you know it was just just keep this the the the basket of the sutas right that most
people know not the Abu dhama in the the vinaya which is the monks rules that’s the whole other let’s just say this is yeah or what supposedly what the Buddha
said you know so everybody would get together and they supposedly all agreed
on what he said they still didn’t write it down it wasn’t until the third Council and I don’t know exactly how long that there was some kind of fear
supposedly that it had run out and I was even on Wikipedia I read that they were
also afraid that people were infiltrating the order and trying to delude it and confuse things and so they
wanted to write it down which who know I mean I don’t want to get it to know much speculation but I mean that very well
could have been you know if I say something that happened to Christianity yeah exactly the same thing it’s
interesting so not only that not only that whole thing but then after the years ago in the translation the
preservation because they wrote these things down on these what Palm leaves uh I forget the exact term from it but they
they had to keep copying because they didn’t last very long so they’re always scribing it again and then they would
hear um they would hear somebody speak it or something and then the word would change a little bit depending on how they heard
it and then once it wrote down then some people would keep with that or some people would so it just all the time
that goes by where it can be diluted and watered down even if it’s based on something to begin with credible to begin with and
I I don’t we don’t really and then there’s some Scholars that say well the the poly language if I’m getting this
wrong uh getting this wrong are right that uh he didn’t actually speak Polly he spoke some similar version of that
but it was kind of um came up afterwards when it was written down to preserve it that way but it’s maybe like Latin today
there’s no native poly speakers like there I don’t think there’s any country where people come out of the womb and
then the whole country and everybody starts speaking poly around them just like Latin yeah they don’t know as far
as we know so that’s another ball of work so there’s all these same with things that are possible yeah yes it’s
exactly the same thing but the Hebrew Bible the translation is the same with the gospels that’s why we had the
Council of nicaea yes we’re not going to conspiracy theories here but the first 300 years after the supposed living of
Christ and the crucification was that exactly we had many different interpreters of what he was saying and
and they were also lay people and then there was this group that were around him and they were trying to preserve
what was being said then and then we had Saint Paul that created a whole no other branch which is the one we have the
Western Christianity and all of these things so everything was in the mix everything was was thrown up in the air
people trying to remember what was said and again I want to point out that the ones that were doing these days
try to preserve what he actually said did they even understand what he was saying and they were lay people so and
he had downsized his teachings so so what did they carry on how accurate are
these carry-ons and how much the scholars say well at that time people were good at reciting things which we’ve
seen they learned at verbatim they learned how to repeat it again and again and again and the problem then became
when they began to write it down because then you had a smart under the paper or you had something and then it had been
in a word so it’s the same idea the scholars are using so we could say that’s that’s that’s the scholars
approach of sorry about that how things have been preserved but we don’t know if that’s accurate either so we are
literally looking into blindfolded into the past trying to make ideas so they
when we talk about people that are discussing because it’s mean this or that or whatever then we are all on the
same level because nobody knows exactly that’s why we uh early on I tried to trace it back to the origins as much as
I could and I found things like well the only complete poly text is on wood Block
in a monastery in Korea of all places the rest are kind of here and there
pieces that they’ve kind of pieced together there’s really no even that’s even the written thing down now and plus
there’s no unbroken oral tradition so once The Unbroken oral tradition where you have before the elders would die
they would make sure all there’s various students would have this exact same knowledge of the they could recite the
entire thing by heart right and then then if that’s that carries down generation after generation without any
air right supposedly given that they still have all their faculties right and there’s enough people to cross-reference
well then it has more accurate but when you start writing things down okay some people think the opposite where it would
be better preserved that way well yes and no because because it you know if
you can’t uh if there’s those little errors they add up and there’s no unbroken oral tradition like that too
now the other things is um and you have to pick the words you’re using but what if the words has several meanings how
are you going to do another thing too well you first have to have the starting point for the literal okay and then the
interpretation comes later but if you even if you don’t have the literal thing that down there that you can refer to
then there can be the interpretation can be even further off right because if we’re if you get the thing wrong to
begin with and you can be interpreting the wrong things to begin with so so there’s all these complications with this and not only that the time period
was so different we um so just think about when my grandmother died um and then we’ll go into the good the
positive versions though too so but just just to set the ground here for that you know she barely recognized the life she
lived she grew up the no you know you hear these stories but you know no running water like they had to make their own clothing and food right there
was uh you know I think they even had horse and buggy maybe at the at the very beginning right no uh outhouses and
things like this and no communicating then you get to the where at the end where you’re showing her this iPhone and
all the things that held in my hand that you know so it’s completely unrecognized that’s only a hundred years so we’re
talking about what five is it four five six hundred BC uh BCE where where this
is so it’s just almost unimaginable how different things could be in the state of mind that people could be in so
that’s another um and I would actually claim when we talk about the philosophers and the sages they were probably more educated
in the Realms of the other Wells than we are today so I would I would actually throw in there if you ask me if I were
to go somewhere to find what if I were to do an inquiry of okay I want to know
what Buddhism really is I did that actually years ago and my solution was that I needed to go into contemplation
and I needed to go in and connect with the Davis the other wildebeings the ones
that not that he taught them but no he did yes I know that’s the saying but I’m sorry about that I’m not going to buy
that one okay but for me that’s a made-up story but he did have kind of you can go in if we talk about the the
ruperts the other world beings that can both be in the Underworld and the Heavenly beings they we definitely as I
am having this is where I just throw that one in there which alluding to the other podcasts we’ve done together I do
communicate with with other world beings and some of them yes you can definitely teach them stuff they won’t listen
because they’re very they’re very oriented within their own Realms and their own ways of living and some of
them are what we call extraterrestrials so so the point is that they would they
even even them would not perhaps even have the correct version of it so where could we get that correct version and
that’s that’s where in my experiences with this work I have kind of come across what we call the
white nagas the snake beans that are technically the Guardians of the underworld they’re keeping some very
nasty things uh controlled down there but they are also the wisdom snakes they also call the flame Lords so so there
you get some information but they are also oriented towards some kind of purpose of what they want to convey of
that information so when we talk about this where do we then get the quote unquote truth nowhere
so what’s the point of having this discussion as if we’re doing the scholar thing I want to know the truth of what’s
going on there and to do the motor thing I want to believe no I want to know the truth right so so where do we get that
nowhere so that’s where we go and say okay what then what do we have what can
we work with since we can’t find the truth or the true teachings or the true understanding of things as because of
what we talked about here then we can as practitioners today practice the
Dynamics of meditation practice the Dynamics of being in the now of observation of psychological
developmental processes of learning how to transform energy learning how to
evolve who and what we are and perhaps not into the the original concepts of Enlightenment today we call Awakening
but going to say expanded awareness how do we get to the faculties that leads us
to expanded awareness and and there I see the value of the Buddhist teaching system because for me that’s still aside
from psychology that only goes so far that could be kind of that adds in the
extra where you have the enlightenment where you work with your brain in a way that science doesn’t know of today with
the Buddhist monks where I began in contemplation meditation you can develop your brain into developing new neural
network via meditation via contemplation or via working with energy and this is
uh kind of mostly said most of what I wanted to say too but yeah this is what is the importance of this text so even
though it might not be accurate is there still salvageable things and I would say yes you know some of the practices laid
out like onapanasati the mindfulness of breathing the um you know the four foundations of mindfulness you know
these lay out the these things and and it’s also important to the most
important thing you have to see him know this for yourself even the teachings say that you can’t take his word for it you
know you can’t you have to put these things to the test along with with your other things and be a practitioner
that’s all it’s not just another philosophy designs another philosophy just to read and think about and that
that’s part of it but it’s also putting it to your own experiential knowledge right and bouncing it off of other wise
folks just a few things with the the other worldly Realms that that’s a whole Fascination thing I would love to
explore sometime maybe but I don’t know too much about the Buddhist cosmology but you know the the kind of um the
demons their yakas are some of them and then there’s also the Devas and the different Heavenly Realms and then they
go beyond that and this is the Brahma Realms right and then but even that if
we know that things change even these if people aren’t practicing looking into these Realms and interacting with these
beings then they’re just repeating a cosmos story from way back but as we know in this reality right things change
significantly so why wouldn’t the other worldly Realms change so I I would
wonder if there’s deep practitioners with ability go into these things look at the old
anxious texts see follow the timeline from then to now see how these Realms have changed what significant change
this is so much right to the on the levels like mogalana who is known as the foremost psychic powers or Anna Ruda was
known as the one with the four most Divine eye that can see the most into these Realms and so I mean where are the
Buddhist practitioners today I would say if there are they’re locked up not locked up but as far as the lay people
go and maybe for good reasons in in the monastic order and this isn’t really for the lay men right because it doesn’t
apply to the Layman but the one thing I mean this is just a kind of a hobby of mine these things like this and maybe it
does belong behind the orders this type of work I don’t know but the main thing is what kind of practical wisdom can be
taken from the text and then either updated today what needs to be let go of what’s what’s applicable now and how do
we do that you know how can we it also extract what’s most important and not
have to spend you know years and years and years of study all the time not that there’s a quick fix all the time either
but yeah these things ought to be known and I think we might want to start uh wrapping this this one
up and we we set off to talk about Duca so maybe we can do that in the next one this is I think a good introductory
covered a lot of different things as setting this up too yeah yes because it is important when we talk many in my
opinion maybe many people fall into the Trap of reading the text and then they begin to discuss the text and then they
begin to battle each other and who’s right and who is wrong and how to interpret this and for me that’s the
then missing the entire absolutely scholar stuff yes but also lay people as in kind of the with the worshipers and
the followers as I call them then they they cling on to the little literal interpretation of the text and become
very rigid and missing the entire point of contemplation so for me all the texts
that we have and that that would be my point of view until otherwise proven is
that everything you will present me with of text material whatever is mythology or the sayings of the Buddha or whatever
comes up he said oh he said this oh this is how it happened or whatever I will always sorry about that but I always be
very Square there and say as we said in danger very Square adamant kind of yes
this is these are made up text yeah but we can use them for contemplation we can
use them for inner work we can we can focus on specific terminology on specific sayings as with the hole in the
ground what is this showing us what’s the Dynamics here what is the Learning lesson what’s the energy behind and as
most people will discover when they do work with ancient texts if they work far enough through through the mythology
through the Saints through the narrative go and follow the trail of one word as Duca which will work within the next
podcast there will be a symbol at the end of it and that’s the symbol that’s used for
enlightenment that’s the one that you need to put in the center of the head which is the joint light that comes in
your meditation practice eventually there will be this Center of light in the middle of your head and there the
symbol will go in and that will technically ignite the light the eye that sees the worlds that are Beyond
these ah okay and so yeah if we explore that further for sure that’s fascinating
um it’s right because even this is one thing I’m really drawn to the this what’s called Buddhism right is there’s
the doctrine is kind of 180 on Mustang it’s a doctrine of open inquiry so I
would say anybody that uh ascribes to that subscribes or you know aspires to
that they have to start from that very beginning that what the text is there’s a potential that that’s not you know
it’s it’s the validity or source of it it could be completely questionable you
know so you have to even ask questions about that so yeah so these heart the the hardliners about this as well no no
well you have to be open-minded and do the inquiry on it to see no for yourself that that is either valid or invalid or
here’s what’s helpful here’s what’s not right yes so yeah so so from in my
understanding including also if we said there was a character Jesus that did these teachings as well as the Buddha if
there was a Buddha as we know of it for me if if I are to look in and say okay how would that we’re talking about the
problem with language the higher level of Education not that Jesus had that positions focus on the Buddha if if he
had this high level of Education how and he had these encounters with the arupas he had these encounters with the nagas
he was getting information from the lunar Buddhas which were also other realm all the wealthy beings from other
Realms there are the ancient councils of the ones that have gone before him that
he was tapping into how would they have told him these symbols these
understandings this is after he went through all of these stressful with
teaching the body in a specific way that literally broke down all of his barriers
as we say in the chakrases the teaching teaching systems that should break down
the seal between the chakra so that you reach the ability to work with energy on
its correct level the pranayama using the breath opening up to the the higher
winds that will open up your Minefield that will allow you to work with these very Advanced levels of information
where you do connect to the other world of beings then then how did he convey that to his Layman he would have given
them sayings and then said to them focus on this word go in meditation focus on
that word meditate on that word and continue to meditate on that word until
it turns into a symbol and that’s kind of where I want to end this podcast if you ask me I’ll just
wrap up here that uh yeah even if people are hardliners and say well you know
um no Randy you you know you’re a little bit off he he taught more standardized
methods for achieving than thinking but what it comes down to is the teaching of the handful of leaves you know he took
the monks to the forest he grabbed a bunch of leaves and he said okay what’s greater the leaves in my hand are the leaves in the forest they said well of
course the leaves in your hand and he he said exactly while I my knowledge and vision is is is equivalent to the trees
in the forest what I teach though is just in my hand yeah duka in the end of Duca the question remains how did he get
that other knowledge in wisdom you know where did that come from he didn’t teach that but he knew it yeah so this is
where I’m so fascinated in your work it’s because these are actual you know um in a way if it could be called
practical these are ways that how this this extra knowledge accessible and
gainable even though he didn’t teach it you know he had access to all that and how did he get that you know where did
it come from and so these are times it’s a good distinction to make that because I think I made a little bit of
of what we call a mind jump because what I took what i t talks teach and talk
about here uh would be in in your understanding of when we do the Buddha he would have exactly as you said Layman
that he would convey one type of information to what I allude to here with all of these secret knowledge for
the monks well yeah so I’m whenever I talk about this it’s not never really for the Layman because the the way I
practice Buddhism in my the manga was back then that was the level that was
the secret the esoteric level of it so I will always go into that so that’s why I’ve got a lot of information that’s not
out there which is not accessible which is not part of the Canon so to speak exactly but because that was handed over
by the Layman and then the monks as it is with all secret societies and all esoteric teachings they knew the symbols
they knew how to contemplate so we could say the Buddha he had probably as all wisdom teachers and all that are working
with the secret teachings he would have had what we call the outer ring that are
the lame and the commoners and then it would have the different build off of monks and then it would have the ones
that were even closer to him and then you would have the one that would be completely as close to him as were
possible because they had genetic energetic Affinity with him and they would get a lot of information no one
else would get almost like an osmosis because they would be in his field similar to what we know of the Dixon
where you have this high level teacher that is able to transfer via osmosis or
via hands or about just by being in the field that high level of information they might not carry the energy for a
longer period of time but they would have insights when he would go up in high energy and he would sit in his
position either choosing one of the other mudras he would exemplify it for the inner circle with that level of
information that’s how they would get it they would forget it but they would at least have seen it
so this is really fascinating how this where this lines up with my understanding of the teachings and you
know and the extra layers so I just pick up on these so um even though it said there’s no esoteric teachings in
Buddhism that he’s not hiding anything the way this is kind of comes to a balance is that he uh maybe that’s true
maybe it’s not but one way to um to kind of Rectify that in a way is that he only
taught publicly suffering in the end of suffering so that’s why there’s um there
wasn’t too much stuff hidden in the canon in a way now however there’s an ever there there’s a whole rule that I’m
not uh rules rules upon rules called the vinaya for monks and I’m not very
familiar with that but from my understanding they couldn’t um they could not talk about their attainments
delay people they could talk about their attainments to other people in the order you know and I won’t go into there’s all
kinds of reasons for that and all uh you know maybe good and bad or whatever and so that was the way and then there’s
there’s whole other things that with the rules and which are minor not there’s kind of a joke around that and you know
which ones are still relevant today uh yeah and then so um so that’s the another thing then the the uh like you
like you said with the um the the close people there was the kind of the chief disciples they call them the one that
was by him most it seemed really it’s his cousin intended Ananda you know but the ironic part there is supposedly
maybe it was a teaching to him he didn’t really achieve enlightenment until after the Buddha passed away and it wasn’t
until he finally gave up that when he his head was falling to a pillow that he
gained Awakening or something but that’s not like the other ones which it’s known that yeah he was supposedly he had all
these ascetics that he just spoke certain words and teachings in his presence right that they became fully
enlightened beings because they were right for it and other people gained like the first level just because of his
immense power and so this backs up what I was saying there okay well so so we’re
gonna wrap this up and I guess we’ll go on to the next one with uh with with we’ll focus more on Duke and kind of
past lives and how that might be involved too yes all right yeah good foundation indeed
Integrating Presence 
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