Quashing Gossip

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Listen to the full unedited version of Quashing Gossip with or without the Wisdom App: https://join.wisdom.audio/WdQK

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The description to this August 17th, 2022 Insight Timer live event and subsequent notes:

Pretty much all considering joining this already know they’d like to gossip less so let’s dig into some teachings to really drive home the importance of quashing our gossip as we interactively share questions, feedback, contemplate, reflect and explore solutions

• Recently uncovered levels of shame so forgive me if any of this where notes written beforehand comes off as shaming
• I’m obviously not beyond gossip yet but am more interested in events and ideas so I’m kind of like an alien overhearing gossip at cafes then observing, contemplating, getting insights and “downloads”. Glad for this though and not everybody tethered to devices.
• I’ve been out of traditional workplace for awhile which is a different more dangerous dynamic
• Not to take to other extreme of avoiding discussing uncomfortable occurrences or keeping secrets only to perpetuate harm
• relationships built on gossip
• enlivens life
• compassionate potential in weird way
• comparison / ego involvement
• how much is reflective or indicative of the degree to which one values and validates one’s own life and behavior?
• Seems so juicy, important, irresistible, but what is the intent and reasons for involvement, even if just talking about someone?
• How much are we trying to control other people — via judgements and advice — and not wanting it to happen to us or avoid that we may still do the same thing?
• Can and how much of (unusual/foreign-like) drama of others points out what’s missing or not understood about one’s own relationships? How much do we learn from what others are going through and how can we do so better without getting addicted to and fueling unhelpful drama?
• What do we find idle chatter and boring? What do we find juicy? How much of our assessment is person specific?
• How can societal importance on an event affect how related, or involved people are gossiped about i.e., extra chatter from a “news item”?
• Recall a gossip session. Recall for a few moments what was:
  • emotionally triggering
  • emotionally amplifying
  • a release, a relief
  • gratifying and a reinforcement to repeat this and/or other gossip

Ways to master gossip

• feel what’s happening in and to body
• after identifying some of the unskillful, unwise, unwholesome, unhelpful aspects (we’ve explored) consider the choice to stop feeding them
• “Don’t respond to drama and drama won’t respond to you”
• Notice where the value and worthiness is, where it’s coming from or where and how value and worthiness is missing
• How can life be enlivened in the moment, especially with (former) gossip pals, without always relying on external stimulus?
• How can we identify what gossip games and programs, old and new are running? How can we develop new healthy habits to replace them.
• Old fashion: Males bond more around shared interests. How can males gossip less around shared interests? Female tend to bond more around relationships. How can females gossip less while still deeply engaging in relationships? Perhaps being more absorbed into the present helps both
• Identify common, easy to notice landmarks and reference points to help recognize patterns and traps when gossiping that shout, “hey this is now happening again. I see it and now can choose differently.” Then what are some of those better choices?
• “What we notice about others is what we’ve already addressed in ourselves”
• Talk to people not about people

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Listen to the full unedited version of Quashing Gossip with or without the Wisdom App: https://join.wisdom.audio/WdQK

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Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)

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From Matt Kahn’s 2/27/2024 newsletter ‘How to Eliminate the Tendency to Gossip’:

Are you sitting down? Don’t worry, you’re the first to know. But you cannot tell anyone. You’re never going to believe what they did next! How many times have you heard the breaking news alarm blaring within your social circles as you hope you are near the front of the line to get the latest salacious update on who did what? In a world where many define trust by how ‘in the know’ they remain with the juiciest details of someone’s life, the tendency to gossip continues to pull on the fabric of a society that often prefers talking about one another over talking to each other.

Fundamentally, the need for gossip has a few levels of motivation. At its core, gossiping is intended to be a way for people to process their feelings or gain the support of loved ones during times of difficulty. The oversight that turns sharing into gossip is discovered in where our focus is placed. While it is natural to share details about our experiences, when the focus is too consumed on ‘who did what’ along with deciding ‘what do we think of them as a result,’ the healing power of processing halts in the face of personal judgment.

As a way of seeing through and eliminating the tendency to gossip and judge, it is important to remember emotional processing is most effective when the focus of your sharing is centered more on how you feel than on the vilifying of another. Of course, if someone has violated your personal space, it is important to let people that you trust know to help advocate for your well-being. While confiding in someone you trust about the abuses you are ready to be freed from requires talking about another person, there is a palpable level of intention that makes a cry for help a much different experience than talking behind someone’s back.

Even when the energy just needs to speak disparaging words toward the character or people associated with your wounds, it is of equal importance for those holding space for your process to witness your sharing without feeding anyone’s ego through reflections of judgment. When operating from states of unconsciousness, it is common to believe you are offering companionship to others in pain by adopting their enemies as your own. While you don’t have to degrade the value of a person who hurt someone you love, it is equally unhelpful to correct someone in pain, who may need to accuse, criticize, and condemn a character, in order to move the layers of emotional energy that guide them further through their own healing process.

Since it is common to overlook the value of emotional companionship needed when holding space is invited, it can be nearly instinctive to partner up with others, in an attempt to become spiritual detectives intent on figuring out the motivations of another. Instead of focusing on ‘who did what’ or determining who was right or wrong, space holding is more so a willingness to be present for the versions of truth each person perceives, as it relates to the feelings that have surfaced to be healed. Even though people’s perceptions of reality can vary, shaped by their life experiences and internalized pain, it’s crucial to recognize that everyone has the inherent right to experience and navigate their emotions in their own manner, provided it doesn’t inflict harm on others, without being judged for the validity of their feelings.

Rather than fueling the fire of someone’s judgments or even trying to correct them, of fundamental importance when holding space is to honor how someone feels, no matter the narratives attached to each feeling or memory. In order to do so, it is important to resist the temptation to dig for information, even when the other person wants to give you updates, show you text threads, or troll someone’s social media pages in your presence. Instead, it is important to distinguish yourself as an ally of their soul and not an enabling haven for their ego to hide in. This occurs by maintaining a focus on someone’s emotional journey no matter how steeped in envy, jealousy, wrath, judgment, or rage they may need to be.

For example, let’s say a friend in pain says, “How could they have done this to me?” In all honesty, you can say, ‘I don’t know’ because the truth is, you don’t. You may have strong suspicions in one direction or another, but because you haven’t lived a lifetime in someone else’s shoes, you couldn’t assume to know anyone’s true motives without living out their history of pleasure and pain. Even when your intuition says, ‘I know exactly why,’ it is important to distinguish the ego’s belief in being intuitive from the true beauty of intuitive knowing.

When co-opted by the ego, you are likely to confuse the impulse of snap judgments with a sense of higher knowing—as if knowing why anything happened the way it did offers some degree of relief. Contrary to the ego’s ‘intuitive’ need to know, the soul’s version of intuition is knowing the right question to ask and the right things to say to help someone face themselves with supportive connection and compassion. In truth, relief is not a matter of knowing why, since there are always endless versions of why waiting to be answered. Instead, true relief is found in facing how we feel, whether in time spent alone or through the support of loved ones.

To help you deepen your ability to hold space by eliminating the tendency to gossip, please consider the following tips:

• Gossip is an unconscious way of feeling special. When we know details that others don’t, we are momentarily freed from beliefs in inferiority and fears of rejection by being ‘in the know’. Because gossip creates an energetic phenomenon known as ‘triangulation’, there is no redeeming healing benefit for any person involved when the sharing of feelings becomes the ridiculing or accusatory nature of talking behind someone’s back.

• To the best of your ability, choose to replace ‘what do I think about this’ with ‘how do I feel about it’.What you think about things is mainly an extrapolation of judgment that gives you no greater ability to feel or uncover the next most empowered steps you may need to take. It’s simply how the ego derives a false sense of power from the circumstances it has felt disempowered by. Since the ego doesn’t know how to make courageous decisions without making someone else an enemy to reject or avoid, you are better off focusing on your feelings, along with the changes in environment, relationship, or lifestyle that only have to be right for you and the journey you’re on.

• While you may be present when gossip ensues, trying to correct anyone’s behavior helps no one heal. In order to move from victimhood into empowerment, one must be permitted space to give words to their feelings. Gossip is a judgmental free-for-all where everyone engages in this expression with no one holding space for another person’s feelings. As this occurs, you can sit quietly and hold space for the emotionally-fueled sharing of others. Although, it is only helpful if it’s a space you willfully desire holding. Sometimes gossip can become so toxic that you may choose to remove yourself from the spiral of projection. When this occurs, you can politely excuse yourself without any need to correct the behavior of others, allowing it to naturally correct on its own as their healing deepens. This may help remind your inner healer that while you may be capable of space holding, it can only be a powerful gift to offer when holding space is a choice instead of an insistence or obligation.

When connecting takes precedence over correcting, we are able to hold space for the healing occurring in ourselves and others without adopting anyone’s narrative or creating energetic patterns of triangulation. Since the aim of personal integrity is to treat ourselves and others the way we wish to be treated, one of the best ways to heal lingering wounds of rejection, abandonment, and betrayal is to refuse playing that same hurtful role in someone else’s life. From this space of mindful compassion, the elimination of gossip becomes instinctive versus effortful and can occur for everyone’s mutual benefit.

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The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:

oh yeah did you see that guy over there that old t-shirt on it’s got that old shirt on

with the uh buttons buttoned up all the way and

chest hair still hanging out oh hey this is Josh that both of integrating

presence here with a insight timer live event called quashing

gossip also on wisdom app and the description for this event is

pretty much all considering joining this already know they’d like to gossip less so let’s dig into some teachings to

really drive home the importance of quashing or gossip as we interactively

share questions feedbacks contemplate reflect and explore

Solutions so let’s just arrive in the room here and take a

three if you feel so called to join so

three full breaths completely present for every moment of the inhale every

moment of the exhale

okay you’re welcome to stay in the semi-meditative state

so I recently uncovered levels of Shame so forgive me

if this is if any of my notes come off as shaming on this but they’re probably

written before this uncovering but um and also obviously I’m not Beyond

gossip myself while I’m more interested in events and ideas

um overhearing things at cafes where a lot of this ideas came to me here they

seem alien it’s like me as an alien listen into these people gossiping a lot

and um but I’m actually glad for this to have places like this cafes where I can

actually even hear people gossip because a lot of times

um you know people are just on their devices they’re just glued to the devices they’re not even looking around

you know every once in a while you get people um have joined each other and we’ll talk

but yes and I’m this isn’t going to address most of the traditional workplace gossip I’ve been out of that

scene for quite some time now so which is actually I guess okay because

um the workplace gossip can be really dangerous I feel um so but this can be applied to that

I’m talking more just kind of like everyday gossip and if you

maybe this is not fair maybe a little harsh but there are

basically people that haven’t started waking up or have no interest in really waking up there’s like two major

divisions there’s um the workers and the Breeders so this doesn’t apply mostly to the

working the workers worker programs this is more I guess around the breeding

programs um so I also want to not take this to the

extremes of people uh not of avoiding not discussing

uncomfortable things or occurrences and keeping secrets only to perpetrate harm so that’s the Other Extreme of Gossip

where you don’t want to talk about anything or anybody at any time you want to keep everything secret and hidden uh

that’s not what I’m talking I mean that’s the Other Extreme of this too so that’s not where we want this to lead

either um with as a teaser at the end of the month in the 29th I’m going to be doing

a uh insight timer live on Discerning deceptions so stay tuned for that

okay so now let’s get into it uh anybody here is welcome to share their

experiences with this gossip if they have any advice on it you know um what’s helped them with it

um yeah whatever they’d like to

feedback on what I’m saying questions for me you just share amongst each other too

okay so to get into this how much of our relationships are even

are built around gossip you know those types of friendships or acquaintances where

um just about every time people get together they’re they’re gossiping they’re talking about other people other

things and so it’s almost foreign or it feels weird if that were to quit

so I think that’s one of the biggest things to consider for people who have relationships built on that you know

what what could possibly replace that and then how could there be a transition to

replace that and then how do you go about talking about things like that with the other person if you’re still

interested in keeping the friendship relationship whatever so what I gathered with this as my

little alien Outsider look at this it it actually um it seems to enliven people’s lives

when they get together and talk about other people or gossip about things it’s they seem to bring up more life in

themselves because it’s it’s it just Sparks this interest in

something right in other people that’s there’s so many facets to this in a kind

of a weird kind of roundabout way there can be compassion when people are

talking about other people a lot of times you know somebody’s got into some kind of

something right some kind of issue some kind of Challenge and then talking about

them it depends on how one responds you know and Carries themselves but even if

one’s looking to gossip more and more and you’re in the middle of a conversation you can actually use it as

a opportunity without perpetuating gossip of being compassionate speaking

uh kindly about them wanting to know or expressed that you’d actually want to talk to them and uh see if you can help

in any kind of way um so how much of this is comparison when

we get in Gossip uh how much are we comparing ourselves to what’s being

gossiped about um and then what kind of our ego is involved in this is it coming from a

place of oh I wish I was actually more like them even though I’m talking about that I wish I was that cool or you know

um I don’t you know or I I’m so much better than that this is look at these people

you know we’re so much better than these people doing these things kind of thing

and then how much is reflective or indicative of the

degree to which one values and validates one’s own life and behavior

so similarly here

when we gossip how much does it show how much we value

our own life and behavior with that comparison are we saying

you know I they’re over there uh that’s not good enough or acceptable enough

um I’m more valuable than that and is that the best is that the best way Army is that is that the most

skillful wholesome wise way that we want to Value ourselves by comparing to other people and how much is it also validate

our own life and behavior okay

so when you get into the thick of Gossip it’s a lot of times it seems so juicy

and so important and so irresistible but one of the biggest things that gets

often overlooked here is what is the intent and reasons for involvement

even if we’re just talking about someone so you know what is the reason for this

what are we getting involved in when we when we gossip what’s the purpose you

know the why

Amma says gossip contributes to more US versus them and the world needs less of

that not more of that very good uh divide and conquer right so as long

as we can have an in-group and an out group one of us not one of us divide conquer

before easily more controlled that way so and then when people Define

themselves then there they don’t need a lot of external control from people and

Authority because they’re already weakening themselves with that division that’s right

so how much are we trying to control other people via judgments and advice

and not wanting it to happen to us or or avoid

that we may still do the same thing so how much are we trying to control

other people and not wanting it to happen to us by gossiping about it oh they’re doing

this uh I don’t want that to happen to me or you know um

or maybe we’re actually talking about someone but we we’ve done the same thing or are we still doing the same thing but

maybe we want them to kind of get caught and not us this type of thing

um and also the advice right like me you

know or if this is considered device or not but um when we when we gossip we say oh well

they should do this they should do that can you believe that uh why aren’t they doing this uh that you know if I was

them I would do this so that kind of advice um you know is that kind of a protective

mechanism um saying that you know I don’t want that to happen to me this is my armor

and uh strategy my line of defense and plan of attack if something like this

were to happen to me all right

and of course that judgment you know we all know that like if we’re getting some kind of satisfaction from judging

someone else that’s the real judgment um that’s not helpful

different from evaluation evaluation is saying oh I see that I still honor you

however you know that’s not for me

hey Canon how much of unusual or foreign-like drama of

others points out what’s missing or not understood about one’s own relationship

so basically some people are fascinated you look at uh just dramas on TV and movies one of the reasons we go and see

that and pay attention to other people and talk about them is because maybe what they’re doing their lives are so

different than ours and it’s we’re trying to find out what’s missing in our

lives are what we don’t understand about our own relationships so I think this is

an important Dynamic too to consider um of one of the draws towards gossip

so we’re we’re using um someone else is kind of like a

um I don’t know a stage show to apply to find out what’s missing in our lives and

are understood or not understood about uh the relationships we’re in you know

trying to see well how does that line up and match with the relationships I’m in

and how much do we learn from what others are going through and how can we do so better without

getting addicted to fueling unhelpful drama again yes we can learn a lot by

observing folks so we don’t have to go through the same mistakes they do especially if they have some kind of

insight into their challenges that they can share as well and so if we can learn

from that without actually having to experience it for ourselves or something

not helpful particularly not helpful we can learn or we can we can be wise and

know of something without having to go through it then it’s a potentially big

help Time Saver too okay so what do we find idle CH what do

we find idle chatter and boring and what do we find juicy

how much of our assessment is person specific okay so when we find

ourselves gossiping um what makes it juicy what makes it

worth talking about you know and then what makes a topic boring so if we can

identify these then um I think it’s very helpful into seeing

you know what’s actually driving some of this and then how much of our assessment of

this is person specific are we mostly we’re gossiping maybe about a specific

type of person maybe there’s a certain individual a certain group um maybe it’s a certain type of

I don’t know something or another that really gets us going and then there’s maybe something else that we just have

no interest in talking about um so these identifying these triggers of what really

feeds this gossip

okay so how can societal importance on an event affect how related or involved

people’s people gossip about um that is extra chatter from a news

item so if you see something in the news right um notice how many more people are going

to be talking and gossiping about that one thing just because it’s making the rounds in the news compared to say maybe

I don’t know a couple weeks before and after maybe a couple months before and after you know what happened to all that

gossip then so just because we see something on the news doesn’t mean that

you know it’s worth gossiping about necessarily right um and being aware of that that these

things in the media kind of feed people’s interest and response

for many different reasons and we’ll go into here

so now I invite you to do like this little maybe a little practice here so recall a gossip session if you can just

recall one and for a few moments and I’ll go over these really again I’ll

read through them really uh briefly here and then we’ll go back and spend a little bit of time on this

okay so in this gossip session that you’re recalling what was emotionally triggering

emotionally amplifying really amped up the emotions but was

actually a relief and a release when gossiping

and what part of it was gratifying and then how is it gratifying and a

reinforcement to repeat this type of Gossip or other gossip Okay so

start from the beginning here I would just take a moment to reflect on a gossip section and and um let’s try to

recall what was emotionally triggering about it like what actually what words were spoken or images that

um brought up emotions in US in you

okay now was there anything um in that gossip session that was

emotionally Amplified so not only did emotion get triggered or brought up and

there’s nothing wrong with emotions by the way you just want to be mindful that they’re there right so was there one

that something kind of occurred or was said or seen or realized that actually heightened the

emotional level

and now if you can recall um what was

when was there like a release or a relief for during this gossip session you know

what might have been said what um what were the phenomena or instances what

happened around um where there was like an emotional

release or a relief

okay and so identifying here for a few moments what was gratifying

and what was what could be a reinforcement to repeat this or other gossip sessions

so what did what was actually really gratifying about this honestly you know and uh what could what is the

reinforcement you know what is the common thread throughout other gossip sessions that helps

um back up and support and reinforce this repeating habit pattern

um so what was good about it and what will

help it continue

okay so let me see if I can share just a little bit of feedback I got with this

emotional triggering it just um and amplifying for that one for me it just seemed like when people really connect

when I was really connected and it’s just like this mutual feeding and validation and um you know um really

just kind of adding fuel to the fire you know when there’s a mutual kind of

support to keep going and um ramping things up as far as release a

release and a relief sometimes it’s just nice to to meet with someone and to kind

of just be seen and heard um and without being really uh mindful then

some times things can turn to gossip so it’s kind of second our second um on the

back burner to just actually being seen and heard by someone a friend or being around a friend too

and then as far as the gratifying and reform reinforcement

sometimes there is a righteousness there like oh I’m can you believe they did

this I’m better than them you know and then getting a pat on the back from whoever we’re gossiping with and

yeah so that’s the kind of like a positive reinforcement to kind of

a negative thing now to make another distinction here you know this is not just kind of

um confiding in a friend right it’s different this is different than just

confiding in a friend about certain things as well probably should have done a dictionary

definition on Gossip okay so now on to how do we Master this

uh what are some things to consider about how we kind of Master this gossip

thing meaning uh ending gossiping not uh perpetuating right

so of course with a lot of these practices it’s feeling what’s happening in the body

so noticing when those kind of euphoric feelings happen in the body from that

are around these things what kind of pleasantness there is in the body

um and then what kind of unpleasantness there is too maybe we

hear some crappy news and it does not feel Pleasant in the body and then sometimes

the gospel is a reaction to how unpleasant that feels in the body

so mindfulness of the body

so after we do Identify some of these unskillful unwise unwholesome and helpful unhelpful aspects that we’ve

explored today um we can consider the choice to stop

feeding them right so when we can identify this and see them clearly and know what’s going on and what they could

lead to and what they have led to and what they seem to be leading to if we continue then then more space opens

up or where there is a choice to take the foot off the gas and let the car Coast to stop feeding what’s going on

a lot of times one way is just more silence during the conversation too or

you know sometimes changing the the subject works sometimes it’s a little awkward

but the emotion the adding emotions to what’s going on is uh is one way to fuel

it so if if there’s an amount of agency over emotions and can still keep talking in a

more equanimous way without uh reinforcing

it with energy of certain types right there’s this classic saying that really

helped me with this is that don’t respond to drama and drama won’t respond

to you so of course when people get locked in entangled in drama it’s just they want

that response their they feed off that response of um getting entangled in more

drama and so when we don’t even respond to that then eventually there’s nothing

there to feed on and no um response is really going to come continue or come back though eventually

I found in my experience anyway so notice where the value and worthiness

is where it’s coming from or where and how value and worthiness is

missing so you know identity again identifying where the value is in our conversations

and where the worthiness is you know are we driving value from benevolent things

you know why it’s a skillful wholesome things uh and are we getting worthiness

feeling worthy of um you know what is the state of worthiness around

you know our conversations in our meetings with friends and people we talk to

and then also the absence of that where do we feel we lack value where do we feel we lack

worthiness you know where is worthiness missing

and maybe that can that drive certain types of behavior too when worthiness uh

doesn’t feel like it’s there R1 doesn’t feel like they’re being

valued how can life be enlivened in the moment

especially with former gossip Pals without always relying on external stimulus

right so a lot of times we have to talk about other people or get stimulus

externally so how can we live in the more in the moment and and still get that enlivening

feeling and connection without always having to rely on the outside world

I mean these are um you know this is why I like group meditations is so cool as well as you

know practices like yoga Qigong so there’s a type of connection but it’s

also internal and not always looking to the outside

for feeling alive and in the moment

and then also how can we identify what gossip games and programs old and newer running

how can we develop new healthy habits to replace them

so yeah identifying these gossip games and programs old and new

how do we identify these I think the easiest way is just to know

those relationships we have that are built on that

so I’m going to be a little old-fashioned here and use that you know talk about males and females and uh men

and women here okay males Bond tend to bond more around shared interest right

um get together about things they have in common like to do together and that’s

how men tend to bond more and then females tend to bond more around relationships

so how can females gossip less while still deeply engaging in relationships

so you don’t want to give up certain relationships and then

and then how can males gossip less around shared interest too

and I think you know being absorbed in the present is probably one of the best ways in obvious ways here

and of course looking to identify common easy to notice landmarks and reference points to help recognize patterns and

traps during the gossip that shout hey this is happening again I see it and now I can

choose differently and then what are some of these better choices so maybe there’s something

um where you talk about with some people get together and there’s you know there’s areas where we don’t gossip

obviously but then you know some little juicy tidbit comes up and then there’s it’s Off to the Races with the gossip

right so where what can we look for as reference points to help us recognize

these these points you know these reference points and patterns and traps when they

have when they happen because a lot of times we just so kind of involved in the connection and the

conversation that it just doesn’t even register a lot of times that oh wait we’ve started gossiping we’ve maybe been

gossiping for I don’t know how many ever minutes and maybe it Dawns on later that

it happens and then you know how do you first how you recognize it and then how do you go about it so you don’t look

like you want to exclude anybody or you know make the other person feel you know

shameful for gossiping or just talking what a lot of times it’s out of unconsciousness right

all right so to wrap this up here there’s this quote I also like to

um as far as kind of an Insight on this

relating to other people instead of the classical mere teaching of you know oh

if I see that in another person that means I still have that to work on well you know I’m not going to totally write

that off but consider this too as another way to to deal with those mere teachings that what we notice about

others is what we’ve already addressed in ourselves so if we if we can identify

something in somebody else it’s basically saying oh hey I’ve encountered that before I’m already familiar with

that and I’ve addressed it in my life uh so it you know now how we’ve

addressed it and to what degree and what kind of wisdom and insight we have on it and how much love we have around it may

be a different story but I find that’s a helpful way to to view

some of the mere teachings too and then this is my ultimate goal with this and I’m way short of it it’s to

talk to people not about people so if we’re talking about someone and

they’re not there you know that’s not really that fair so much for them it’s just kind of not really kind of called

for kind of dishonoring disrespectful too so all right with that thank you all for

joining and may you

enjoy the rest of the day and talk to people as much as you can

and less about people foreign