Listen to the full unedited version of this talk with or without the Wisdom App: https://join.wisdom.audio/kohr
While this August 5th edited live event is quite listenable there’s still a little bit of hissing background noise remaining. The portion about hunting and vegetarianism are also edited out although the wisdom app call-in is included. (I forgot to mention I’m not a strict vegetarian as I occasionally eat some cheeses with animal rennet and take some supplements with gelatin capsules. I did not go into the many more complex areas and nuances around food to consider such as environments, situations, cultures, time periods, etc., before drawing conclusions on this matter.)
The event description:
What does it mean to engage in non-harming? How does one practice this and why? Beautiful? Yes! How?
Three main categorial approaches:
- What is harm
- Importance
- A beautiful training
Original notes:
Story: “how many times do you have to have the crap kicked out of you to feel love?” Then my example as acting out as a kid
: physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted
: physical or mental damage : INJURY
: MISCHIEF, HURT
: physical or mental damage or injury : something that causes someone or something to be hurt, broken, made less valuable or successful, etc.
: to cause hurt, injury, or damage to (someone or something) : to cause harm to (someone or something
Various dictionary definitions of harm
- like everything else this starts in the mind
- lack vagina crown, C-section enlist harm from others, grateful for surgery though
- how can men and women play less harmful games with each other? look at the content of many songs and media and folks around us
Areas of harm
obvious (to me):
- (bodily) action [I forgot to elaborate on the Three Stooges]
- emotion
not obvious (to me):
- thought
- speech
in between obvious and not obvious:
- psychological
- psychic
- if all refrained from taking human life for one day
- Theory: satisfaction of being conscious of decay /erosion /extinguishment not implying harm though I wonder if this is so unconscious that for some it takes the extreme of harm to realize (at times). [Also, to clarify around the cycles of decay and renewal I mean more of an entering into and remaining in more of a continually conscious/aware state of the cycles of decay and renewal.]
- hunting
- young girl and toad
- foolish false power of harming. how can one not be emasculated by non-harming? refraining and restraint actually requires and displays more power and self mastery. martial arts.
- even if there were no repercussions and consequences for killing how would it solve any of anybody’s issues or anyone else’s?
- what is the intent for harming? How do some people get sexually aroused and/or use harm to compensate for sexual shortcomings?
- righteousness and if those who say a higher power justifies harm how can this be proven and demonstrated other than shows of force that still can’t destroy truth?
- how much can one harm by not walking away from certain people and situations? what is the strength needed for this like compared to harming someone physically? are there the equivalent of gyms and combat training for this? or just fools?
- [Not mentioned: with all his powers and accomplishments the Buddha was not able to stop war]
- truth can set you free. it can also destroy and not be destroyed itself so non-harm tempers its destructive side in particular the destruction that’s (potentially) unskillful, unwise, unwholesome
Speech
- taking on what other say as who we are
- hate speech term alternative
- self-harm and self-hate
- cycles of victim hating victimizer and vice versa
- bridging hate to loving kindness, bodily, verbal, mental
- feels harmful
- often find out after saying something that it has been received as harmful. so is what was said harmful in itself or was it interpreted as harmful? either way finding out and taking reasonable measures to resolve not to harm in this way with this being again
- brother and I raising our voices at each other and impressed my dad stepped in and I forget what he said to him but said I need to think before I speak. I immediately agreed
- how subtle can this go?
- Dharmic Strategies For Empaths
Importance
- 6th line of Dhammapada: ill-will can never overcome ill-will only non-ill will can. this is an ancient and eternal law
- ethical base of non-harm
- opposite
- training instead of just thou shall not
- insects
- meat?
A Beautiful Training
- beautiful?
- even more beautiful to inspire others of non-harming
- flowers
- difficult to be in conflict if finding something beautiful
- gift of safety
Title of this event inspired by the online retreat Dharmic Pleasure and Karmic Beauty with Gil Fronsdal
Audio: The Beautiful Training (Precept) Of Non-harming
Four ways elucidated in the sutta below:
- painful now and results in future pain
- painful now and results in future pleasure
- pleasant now and results in future pain
- pleasant now and results in future pleasure
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. There the Buddha addressed the mendicants, “Mendicants!”
“Venerable sir,” they replied. The Buddha said this:
“Mendicants, sentient beings typically have the wish, desire, and hope: ‘Oh, if only unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable things would decrease, and likable, desirable, and agreeable things would increase!’ But exactly the opposite happens to them. What do you take to be the reason for this?”
“Our teachings are rooted in the Buddha. He is our guide and our refuge. Sir, may the Buddha himself please clarify the meaning of this. The mendicants will listen and remember it.”
“Well then, mendicants, listen and pay close attention, I will speak.”
“Yes, sir,” they replied. The Buddha said this:
“Take an uneducated ordinary person who has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the good persons. They don’t know what practices they should cultivate and foster, and what practices they shouldn’t cultivate and foster. So they cultivate and foster practices they shouldn’t, and don’t cultivate and foster practices they should. When they do so, unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable things increase, and likable, desirable, and agreeable things decrease. Why is that? Because that’s what it’s like for someone who doesn’t know.
But an educated noble disciple has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve seen good persons, and are skilled and trained in the teaching of the good persons. They know what practices they should cultivate and foster, and what practices they shouldn’t cultivate and foster. So they cultivate and foster practices they should, and don’t cultivate and foster practices they shouldn’t. When they do so, unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable things decrease, and likable, desirable, and agreeable things increase. Why is that? Because that’s what it’s like for someone who knows.
Mendicants, there are these four ways of taking up practices. What four? There is a way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain. There is a way of taking up practices that is pleasant now but results in future pain. There is a way of taking up practices that is painful now but results in future pleasure. There is a way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure.
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain, an ignoramus, without knowing this, doesn’t truly understand: ‘This is the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain.’ So instead of avoiding that practice, they cultivate it. When they do so, unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable things increase, and likable, desirable, and agreeable things decrease. Why is that? Because that’s what it’s like for someone who doesn’t know.
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pain, an ignoramus … cultivates it … and disagreeable things increase …
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pleasure, an ignoramus … doesn’t cultivate it … and disagreeable things increase …
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure, an ignoramus … doesn’t cultivate it … and disagreeable things increase … Why is that? Because that’s what it’s like for someone who doesn’t know.
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain, a wise person, knowing this, truly understands: ‘This is the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain.’ So instead of cultivating that practice, they avoid it. When they do so, unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable things decrease, and likable, desirable, and agreeable things increase. Why is that? Because that’s what it’s like for someone who knows.
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pain, a wise person … doesn’t cultivate it … and agreeable things increase …
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pleasure, a wise person … cultivates it … and agreeable things increase …
When it comes to the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure, a wise person, knowing this, truly understands: ‘This is the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure.’ So instead of avoiding that practice, they cultivate it. When they do so, unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable things decrease, and likable, desirable, and agreeable things increase. Why is that? Because that’s what it’s like for someone who knows.
And what is the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain? It’s when someone in pain and sadness kills living creatures, steals, and commits sexual misconduct. They use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. And they’re covetous, malicious, with wrong view. Because of these things they experience pain and sadness. And when their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell. This is called the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain.
And what is the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now but results in future pain? It’s when someone with pleasure and happiness kills living creatures, steals, and commits sexual misconduct. They use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. And they’re covetous, malicious, with wrong view. Because of these things they experience pleasure and happiness. But when their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell. This is called the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now but results in future pain.
And what is the way of taking up practices that is painful now but results in future pleasure? It’s when someone in pain and sadness doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, or commit sexual misconduct. They don’t use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. And they’re contented, kind-hearted, with right view. Because of these things they experience pain and sadness. But when their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm. This is called the way of taking up practices that is painful now but results in future pleasure.
And what is the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure? It’s when someone with pleasure and happiness doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, or commit sexual misconduct. They don’t use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. And they’re contented, kind-hearted, with right view. Because of these things they experience pleasure and happiness. And when their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm. This is called the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure. These are the four ways of taking up practices.
Suppose there was some bitter gourd mixed with poison. Then a man would come along who wants to live and doesn’t want to die, who wants to be happy and recoils from pain. They’d say to him: ‘Here, mister, this is bitter gourd mixed with poison. Drink it if you like. If you drink it, the color, aroma, and flavor will be unappetizing, and it will result in death or deadly pain.’ He wouldn’t reject it. Without reflection, he’d drink it. The color, aroma, and flavor would be unappetizing, and it would result in death or deadly pain. This is comparable to the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pain, I say.
Suppose there was a bronze cup of beverage that had a nice color, aroma, and flavor. But it was mixed with poison. Then a man would come along who wants to live and doesn’t want to die, who wants to be happy and recoils from pain. They’d say to him: ‘Here, mister, this bronze cup of beverage has a nice color, aroma, and flavor. But it’s mixed with poison. Drink it if you like. If you drink it, the color, aroma, and flavor will be appetizing, but it will result in death or deadly pain.’ He wouldn’t reject it. Without reflection, he’d drink it. The color, aroma, and flavor would be appetizing, but it would result in death or deadly pain. This is comparable to the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pain, I say.
Suppose there was some fermented urine mixed with different medicines. Then a man with jaundice would come along. They’d say to him: ‘Here, mister, this is fermented urine mixed with different medicines. Drink it if you like. If you drink it, the color, aroma, and flavor will be unappetizing, but after drinking it you will be happy.’ He wouldn’t reject it. After appraisal, he’d drink it. The color, aroma, and flavor would be unappetizing, but after drinking it he would be happy. This is comparable to the way of taking up practices that is painful now and results in future pleasure, I say.
Suppose there was some curds, honey, ghee, and molasses all mixed together. Then a man with dysentery would come along. They’d say to him: ‘Here, mister, this is curds, honey, ghee, and molasses all mixed together. Drink it if you like. If you drink it, the color, aroma, and flavor will be appetizing, and after drinking it you will be happy.’ He wouldn’t reject it. After appraisal, he’d drink it. The color, aroma, and flavor would be appetizing, and after drinking it he would be happy. This is comparable to the way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure, I say.
It’s like the time after the rainy season when the sky is clear and cloudless. And when the sun rises, it dispels all the darkness from the sky as it shines and glows and radiates. In the same way, this way of taking up practices that is pleasant now and results in future pleasure dispels the doctrines of the various other ascetics and brahmins as it shines and glows and radiates.”
That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the mendicants were happy with what the Buddha said.
Middle Discourses 46
The Great Discourse on Taking Up Practices
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
holdness welcome josh depold that’s me that’s what people call me the websites
integratingpresence.com so today’s event is called the beautiful
training precept of non-harming what does it mean to engage in non-harming
how does one practice this and why beautiful yeah how so this is inspired by a retreat i
did recently an online retreat with a teacher gil fraunstell and he
looked at these training precepts as beautiful and i never thought of them as
that we’ll get into that but that’s what inspired this to look at these as beautiful so i’m going to basically
break this down in three ways we’re going to take a look at what is harming to begin with and kind of go into that
on various levels and some personal experience with this and
then we’ll elucidates why this is important why it’s important to engage in non-harming
and then focusing on this can actually be a beautiful training not most people
look at it like that they’ll go into like how people would look at some usually perceive something like this and
how it might be perceived differently so i start with a story that happened i was giving another insight timer talk
and i keep my phone in my car sometimes so i ran kind of the last minute was running
out there to get that and some guy was in excuse my storytelling here it has a leaves a lot to be desired
there’s a guy out there with his backpack hey man can i use your phone i need to need to i can’t even call my
kids i said well you know hey come back here in a half an hour and i’m done i have an
old phone that i’ll just let you borrow you know and you’re welcome to give it back to me whenever um whenever you get
your stuff straightened out and so he came back and i gave it to him and uh it
turned out i had forgotten that i hadn’t wiped the phone so he had started an account on
something with one of my email addresses i left in there i’m like oh geez i can’t believe i forgot to wipe the phone so i remotely wiped it and then he got in
touch with me later because i wrote on piece of paper how he can get in contact with me so i got the phone going and it turned
out he told me a story then and again when he came the phone that it was telling me how people were
just he was uh he’d just been kicked out of his house and that he’s on the streets now and
that he’s always getting into fights and people were kicking his ass and really roughing him up and stuff but
he seemed to like get some satisfaction from this and um so
it turned out that you know the cops had found his stuff and he’s oh i forgot the cops found my stuff i just need a ride
there somebody with an id and i’m like well you know i couldn’t do that but so i get this call after that i get my
phone back and get this call like i don’t know a few weeks later he’s calling from the hospital and he
is like uh of course he’s still struggling with some things and he’s like oh i had this number written down
who is this and i go well who is this and he says his name and last name how do i know you okay then it dawned on me
waking me up here what this was and he said yeah me and my friend we got an argument over astrology and he hit me
over the head with a baseball bat and i’m in the hospital and it just kind of struck me i’m like and i said you know
maybe you’re not ready to hear this and this is tough tough love but how many times you’re gonna have to get this crap
beat out of you to feel love to feel like you’re being loved and he just kind of like oh
you know what can you say that again i i told him you know how many times do you have to get the crap kicked out of you to feel like
you’re being loved and i gave him this example that when i was a kid a lot of times i would act out with my parents
because uh maybe this is too personal here but it illustrates the point i would act out because that’s the
quickest way i can get the their most attention and love it didn’t matter if it was negative or positive acting out
got their attention the quickest and gave the most emotion at one point in
the easiest way so a lot of times how backwards things can be and
distorted that that acting out uh was able to get me love and attention it wasn’t the
positive side a lot but then again i didn’t do anything positive to receive it um you know that’s neither here or
there but so i applied that to him and it just kind of dawned on him oh yeah maybe i’m getting into
um this is how i get people’s attention to get people to pay attention to me getting the crap beat out of me um so
and then he said well i gotta go i’m filling out this i got i’m getting filling up my discharge papers i’m going to go like oh this is wild so let’s look
at the dictionary definition of this harm physical injury especially that which is
deliberately inflicted physical or mental damage injury
mischief hurt physical or mental damage or injury something that causes someone
or something to be hurt broken made less valuable or successful to cause heart
injury or damage to someone to something to cause harm to someone or something so like everything else this starts in the
mind there is an idea or thought formation of a desire or wanting to harm someone and
then whether it’s conscious or not maybe it gets verbalized as wanting to harm
and then maybe it’ll go into a physical altercation and i also want to say too that i lack this
thing called the vagina crown this is the kind of a humorous way to look at like i didn’t go through the birth canal
so when i got in here at least i’ve been told right that i was born from a c-section and just from the get-go now
i’m grateful that obviously the doctors did that and you know it could have been a lot worse right if they didn’t do that
i won’t go into details here but right from the get-go someone else was enlisted to in a way harm my mother by
cutting her open just so i could be here and maybe to save her life too so right you know i’ve got that started right
from the get-go of someone else after being responsible for harming someone i love dearly uh for me to even be here so
just i don’t know if how that will inform anything but another thing what i see so much in culture and this is a
critique and it just it just really weighs on my heart and now that i’ve been practicing this for a little bit is
it’s just the way men and women treat each other the games they play and you know there’s just tons and tons of media
out there of you know he said she said tit-for-tat things how one harmed
another how they’re getting the upper hand and you know it’s just like over what is this the way we treat each other
now it just really turns me off to a lot of different relationships when it’s like in the culture to
to make these things like not only acceptable but like okay people are making their living
out of i don’t know aggrandizing these types of behavior and
putting this stuff off on a pedestal of how bad we can treat each other i mean it’s just so ridic i have to laugh and
smile because it’s just so insane in a way it’s just ridiculous that okay so i’ll get off the soap box
and quit ranting here but um so for me the harm to obvious for me anyway now this is probably vary by
people action you know bodily action it’s pretty obvious you see somebody throwing a fist at somebody’s face
that’s harm right i mean that’s uh that’s that’s just as clear as day is
that people’s emotions can it can act as a protective mechanism right having high
amped up emotions it’s like you know get away from me i don’t want you know near me because you’re harming me so i’m
going to blast out emotions to protect myself and um so that goes both ways too
and it can just keep feeding each other with the thought and the motion until the foot goes off the gas
pedal of one or the other and just kind of coast until it goes down the ones that are not so obvious to me are
thought and speech so yes thought is the most subtle layer
pretty much for most people of how harm can be done you know either thinking ill of others or thinking ill of ourselves
there seems to be some sort of agency over that sometimes and sometimes you know i guess due to
habits and patterns uh it takes a while to train some way different than that
speech though this is one that seems obvious to a lot of people but it wasn’t to me so much and i didn’t realize how
much trouble i could get in with unwholesome speech and at the same time you know the opposite is how healing and
empowering and uplifting speech can be too so in between these where it’s kind of like yeah not so
maybe a little bit obvious maybe not so obvious is kind of the psychological harm that can be done too
and kind of a psychic energetic harm that can be done that’s probably just as subtle as
thought as well and i’m not gonna go too much into that it’s commonly said in some circles like
this that if you could just imagine something we usually take for granted i would just say most of us here or anyone
listening to this or those listening to this if we all refrained everyone in the whole world humans would refrain from
killing just other humans for one day this whole world would just be just be
changed overnight and not something we take for granted that happens all the time you know there’s as far as i know
there hasn’t been a recorded day of history where one human hasn’t killed another for so many different reasons
for in so many different areas there’s also this theory for understanding this and this comes from
uh teacher matt khan and maybe maybe not but i thought it’s an interesting idea to mention anyway that
there seems to be a satisfaction in um decay and erosion actually being
conscious of when things decay or erode or extinguish
and when we become conscious of this um it has this type of satisfaction in it
this doesn’t imply any harming because you look at the cycles of nature right that currently happen here on earth uh
in the fall things start to die and they go away and they they they die out and they lose life force and they kind of go
into a hybrid hibernatory state if that’s a word and in the spring they come back to life but a lot of times um
we’re not conscious of how this works and so when we’re not conscious of this we can think oh it shouldn’t be like
this it shouldn’t happen well maybe maybe not but it is happening this that is the way it is right now you
know that’s the way nature works right now in the system so but when we come conscious of that erosion decay oh yeah
this is how it is this is part of reality too it can actually be kind of
you know provide some sense of satisfaction now i wonder that the
reason so now this is just pure speculation the theory on my part i wonder why some of the harm happens is
that people are trying to or people go to some of these extremes to become conscious
that things die that things decay that things don’t always lift themselves
up and build up but they are torn down and eroded and decay and extinguished
you know the violent video games the just the intent to harm the way some people verbally attack other people i
wonder how much of that is this them trying to bring into consciousness
that this notion of erosion and decay and extinguishment although obviously that’s
not the wholesome way and skillful way and wise way to do it so those extremes can possibly bring into consciousness
this type of satisfaction obviously i don’t advocate for this
if you meditate you these things become conscious so you don’t need to go through ridiculous amounts of extremes
like this to become conscious of that things can you know go into decline and decay another way we can get um kind of
this satisfactory notion around death without any kind of harm being involved is this contemplation of death
and the charnel ground contemplations and i’ll link to that in the show notes of the event i did on that and how we
just realize and face this truth that we are going to die you know in in vast detail not to get bummed out or morose
it’s to realize that we only have a certain amount of time left here and that this is the truth of the way things
are now and so the more we can be prepared for that and notice that the less we take for granted in life the
more we seize every moment to use um to help ourselves and to help others and
nothing has to be harmful around this with this contemplation okay so another few
critiques about violence um it’s kind of a foolish false power you know uh at the
same time how can one especially for males how can one not be emasculated by
non-harming because i know a lot of males will look at this and say you know what is this that’s so like what are you
little girly man or whatever you know you’re not gonna be able to harm anybody that’s this ridiculous and i would say
no it actually takes it takes more restraint and refraining refraining and
restraint from harm actually requires and displays more power and self-mastery
than than harming someone most times you know you look at the martial arts right
so now this doesn’t mean that yeah you can’t defend yourself i’m not saying that obviously if somebody initiates
force then obviously you have the right to defend yourself and the ones you love that’s that’s not what i’m talking about
so even if there were no repercussions for or and consequences for killing or
harming how would this solve anybody’s issues you know how would how would that even solve anybody’s issues anyway i don’t
get it you know what does it really solve because it’s coming from the issues coming from within you know if
you just if something’s killed because you don’t like it or whatever reasons you want to give for it the place that
it comes from within if that’s not resolved then it’s just going to continue anyway it doesn’t matter what
you change on the external so much you know we look at what is the intent for harming
sometimes it is because we feel righteous and we’re justified for doing
harming right it’s this revenge these cycles of abuse
victim victimizer things and the way things are so distorted now too some people actually get sexually aroused by
harming then you have the whole thing where people are using harm to like
compensate for sexual shortcomings so again you know a lot of this time this is uh comes from righteousness in those
who even say they have a higher power that justifies harming i would just ask you know well how can you prove and
demonstrate this other than shows of force that still can’t destroy truth you know
so truth the reason truth is so powerful is it cannot be destroyed and so that’s
another thing here that this non-harming helps kind of buffer
and soften and keep truth in check truth can be very destructive it can destroy
the world we used to live in it can be used to harm and attack people too or it can be used to liberate and
free people so this non-harming this commitment to non-harming it helps
along with the commitment to truth that can be used as a very powerful protector
and awakener and liberator but it kind of helps protect the um
the abuses of truth that can happen too so if we’re committed to non-harming
that acts kind of more of a shield i guess to truth shielding others too so
how much can one harm and this one i had to kind of learn the hard way are still learning too i mean how much harm can be
done by not walking away from certain peoples in certain situations you know sometimes it takes
way more strength to do this than any kind of physical strength or anything like that just to walk away i mean are
there is there the equivalent of gyms and combat training for just walking away from a situation or do we just have
to get our training with fools you know i mean what’s what’s it gonna take to finally just walk away from something
and leave it and not come back so again when we look at this we can talk about self-harm too
and hate and and taking on what others say about us so when we listen to people
and they say things about us and we start taking that on as an identity and of course
usually what people say is just kind of a reflection or an indicator of where they’re at on their journey it really
doesn’t have anything to do with us taking that on as true and who we are
things that are harmful from other people and believing that and then subscribing to that and then having that
ruminate over and over in our minds and that is a self a form of self-harming
you know i mean that’s kind of like the most common everyday version of it or one of them you know it goes way more
extreme than that but just this notion that it might feel
real but it’s not true what people the harmful things people say it’s more
saying uh what’s happened to them kind of a reenactment of their trauma a
lot of times you know and where they’re at and what they’re struggling with so this term hate speech this is a really
interesting term here i’m not very fond of this obviously we all know that you know hate speech is not appropriate to
to harm anyone with speech and of course it’s against the guidelines on both platforms here
i just want to address the term itself though i was like kind of a call for a better term for this because the
unconscious mind doesn’t really know the the negative right when the
unconscious mind sees hate and speech for one thing it’s like you’re hating speech i mean that’s not obviously how
we normally interpret that but there it is you’re hate you’re hating speech in
general or calling out what’s wrong so instead of saying the positive of
what you want to train the mind towards it’s immediately locked in to the
negative of hating so right there there’s automatically a problem in an
amplification possibly okay i don’t know 100 you have to see in your own perception what you feel about this but
there’s immediately a problem and amplification of hate and speech and
wanting to silence someone and maybe maybe they should be maybe they shouldn’t be but it’s just like
hate building on top of hate what about love speech you know or
i don’t know i shouldn’t it should have a solution in place but i just want to kind of point out this term
and how interesting it is and i don’t hear too many people address the term itself so yeah what are the alternatives
to this you have to use that word to talk about these things you have to use the negative a lot of times to to talk
about it i’m not as skillful where i can couch this in more positive terms so
this brings me to the next point of how do we bridge this into loving kindness
and loving kindness acts bodily verbally and mentally so we go from this to that
so i invite kind of like how do we do that well i think one of the ways is this commitment to non-harming i often
find out sometimes afterwards that after i’ve said something it that it’s been received as harmful to the other person
and so i wonder you know is what was said in and of itself harmful or is it
an interpretation of being harmful either way i think finding out this a lot of times is
beneficial so we could find out where how the other person received it and how
they interpret it what their feelings are and where they’re coming from too a lot of times things get lost in
misinterpretations some people will overlay their own things on top of what’s being said some
things are just plain harmful and the other person doesn’t realize it or sometimes they do this is all kind of
communication and dialogue that kind of help work this out people that are on this training path of non-harming well
then they either offer an apology or they realize if it is legitimate that
they’ve harmed someone through whatever means and they offer apology and then do a commitment to not doing it again you
know a resolve a firm resolve but another little story i wanted to or just
say my brother and i were raising our voices at each other over stuff i won’t go into and this was over
um kind of a holiday thing and you know i hadn’t seen my dad do this much before but he actually stepped in he and i
forgot what he said to my brother but he said to me josh you need to thank before you speak and i immediately said yes i
agree a lot of times i get loose in the lips and it has not served me well of course a lot of this talk is prepared so
taking him up on that so before we get into the importance you know we start where we are on this are and i want to
also see how subtle this can go the gross levels of harm are most obvious to
people right but this can go really really subtle we talk about harmful thoughts things that we just blow off
well drop by drop of water buckets filled so these will add up over time
they also kind of condition the mind to be more likely to either speak harmfully
and or act harmfully also once people become more energetically sensitive
certain things that once might have not harmed them now becomes uh more apparent
that and especially when people kind of do an unconscious outflow of energetic garbage
and someone’s really wide open especially meditators sometimes you can’t easily kind of absorb that in a
way empathically some people you know not everybody does that in instead of using this beautiful
thing of empathy to really tune into people kind of
know what’s going on and get higher levels of information and knowledge and be able to kind of address things and
respond in ways that might go beyond just the standard way of doing things and progress and evolve
that’s the upside of empathy that the downside is that wide open depending on
where you are what’s going on but then again we can learn and grow for that uh see the post on my
site called dharmic strategies for empaths addressing a lot of this from a lot of
different angles okay so the importance of this now of non-harming i’ll just use a line from the buddhist teachings this
i think it’s a sixth line of the dhammapada and it’s something like ill will can never overcome ill will only
non-ill will can this is an ancient and eternal law it could also be like you
know ill will can never defeat ill will only love can do this so this is kind of like the ethical base
of non-harming this non-harm is like the base of other ethics you have the
doctors a lot of them claim to do the hippocratic oath where they do no harm but there is a lot of possibilities to
harm people on subtle layers you know not necessarily intentionally but
so many different things can go on so i’m not saying yeah doctors hang up all your hats now no of course not it’s just
like this is a really serious thing that needs to be held accountable to uh and
it’s a very admirable thing too so like all the other ethical ethics i i feel a lot of times can be
put against this thing is it is it harmful or is it not and of course this is open to interpretation from different people too so it’s another fascinating
thing the reason i call this and buddhism too calls us a training precept it’s not like a commandment
right thou shall not kill which is it’s great i mean it’s obvious i mean it makes so much sense right this however
because some people will say oh you know that’s two goody two shoes or oh i’m gonna you’re gonna be damned in hell if
you well i mean we won’t get into religious things and that might have changed with the new testament right
this is the training so it’s not like it’s like okay you pick yourself back up you dust yourself off you resolve to
keep doing this to training at getting more and more skillful more and more wholesome some people start with insects
right instead of just swatting the whatever bug that comes your way you pick it up and you move it out of the
place it’s not supposed to be in the house you take it outside in a jar or something now let’s get into why this is
beautiful this is something i hadn’t heard before you know i it’s this is for our welfare benefit and happiness to
take on these things you know it’s not like oh i know i should do this you know i should do this because it you know i
would be a better person no or what maybe yeah but this is something that
really you have to experience how it really helps your life it’s not because you should or somebody told you or yeah
i i understand that would be better but you know maybe i’ll get there someday but this is actually you have to take
this on as a training and experience the real benefits for yourself and even more so how can this be beautiful well for
one thing when we look at this is beautiful you can’t really be in con it’s very challenging and difficult i
found to be in conflict with something we find beautiful how are we going to be
conflicting and harming something we find beautiful it’s really challenging i find at least in those moments when we
find it beautiful so it could be like being in a big flower garden you know this is this is a beautiful training and
practice now what’s even more beautiful than that though is that when we inspire others to
do the same thing so when we can inspire others to be really revel in the beauty
of this practice and that’s even more beautiful thing and one of the common things and i’ll take this call here is
this gift of safety we offer folks so when we’re really committed to this and have some of this under our belt
and some of our past actions have maybe balanced out a little bit people can sense animals can sense that we don’t
have any harm in mind towards them and we give them this gift of safety when we’re around them then and furthermore
if we’re out for everyone’s best interest not just you know the greater good of whatever you know by ignoring
other greater goods or you know the greater good of who me and my cronies or whatever when we were
actually here to help and serve the best way we can i just i’m not saying you don’t have to be street smart about it
you know there’s street smart spirituality too because we don’t want to put ourselves in harm way from trying to help people either but when when
we’re committed to this people can sense that we’re we’re safe to be around they can relax and let their guard down for
the most part i’m gonna take this call samantha ryan welcome how are you i’m sorry about that okay
oh doing well let me put you up to the mic here on the other platform
yeah you’re good what’s on your mind there’s so much to unpack
um i love what you had to say and i i say this with gentleness and sincerity
i think some of what you’re trying to explain are inhumane actions
in a human tone like you’re trying to give a human aspect to what is essentially
inhumane right because that’s our nature to try and explain things so that we can
understand them but i think there’s beauty and not being able to understand
why people would choose to harm people or animals or anything of that ilk in the manner in which they do and it’s
okay to not grasp that to not understand oh yeah yeah yeah it definitely uh yeah
we we don’t have to know everything right we can be okay with not knowing but when we have that true knowledge then we can
we can understand and be able to better respond in the world right if we live in a state of oblivion at least i know for
myself if i live in a state of oblivion it doesn’t do me any good or anyone else any good right oblivion that i’m talking
about or ignorance or something i can’t stand is willful ignorance right
um it’s it’s being okay with the knowledge that something is so outside your scope and
realm of understanding that you will never possess the ability to understand it and that is quite all right you know
i i will never understand for instance why my abuser chose to abuse me in the
manner in which he did and i’m okay with that i don’t want to know i don’t want to know what went through his head
um i’m confident that i am a better person because i don’t
have the ability to know and that’s okay i just want to say i’m i’m sorry about that and
this is thank you but um yeah i’m okay um i’m in a place now that’s uh i’m
building a non-profit um around my experience to help other survivors
and create a safety net to help survivors
um find long-term mental health solutions instead of just short-term because
studies have shown that long-term solutions help ultimately you know
further help someone get to their baseline of who they were before that trauma that they experienced
and no survivor that goes through any any kind of trauma that ilk
should have to worry about paying for mental health facilities and also
deal with the ramifications of what they want there that’s absurd you know um but
uh and then you mentioned um hate speech and i think the best way to to uh
to combat hate speech is to simply live by example right like we don’t have to
rise to that we have the option to walk away and choose the kinder path
and that’s great yes absolutely yes and we we lead by example and if one can do
it then that that sets a standard that others can too and yeah the abusive
thing it’s it’s really interesting you know on that it’s a really complex topic
i would just say that um yes in in sometimes i guess you know this is just off the top of my head
sometimes it can get so severe that the last thing we want to do is especially with well actually i don’t
know because this is the thing a lot of the post-traumatic stress stuff that i’ve that i’ve um that i’ve heard about
and a lot of the regular stuff doesn’t apply to it right um right so it has to be
addressed in different way and i’m not really qualified to go into saying that i would just say maybe
sometime down the road i would just maybe consider asking how do you know
that you will never be able to um receive the power of true knowledge and
understanding for the benefit of acting
in ways that will not only help ourselves but help others too i don’t think there’s any benefit in
understanding how a psychopath’s mind works on that level and that’s really don’t and that’s
why i was just going to say too that’s probably another topic i’ll take up too is psychopathy because this world
is run by psychopaths too the more i feel that the one one of the
strategies is recognizing how that works you know and when we can identify that we don’t necessarily have to feel that
we know for sure you know i know that and i’m so knowledgeable about that but if it can at least be identified and
then there’s more of a choice not to get uh involved and wrapped up in that you
know one of the things i speak about very heavily are recognizing red flags
um that’s knowledge right in hindsight we’re so obvious
that i just didn’t pay attention to but as far as understanding why he chose to
do those things to me i don’t ever want to experience a soul that’s that black and tarnished i’m okay with not
understanding that and there’s peace and tranquility with that decision you know
i’m okay with that and what a blessing is it that we won’t have to experience
that you know ultimately the thing is that core wound with abuse from what i’ve learned too a
lot of times people will choose that abuse over neglect because that neglect is
sometimes more horrible to bear and so they get they they seek that
abuse after abuse after abuse because it’s better than being neglected so psychopaths work on a different level
than people and they begin by breaking down a person’s will and that’s a very important step to
remember um and so these people these poor poor people
um are going about their lives feeling like they are worthless and they are nothing
and that they’re paramount to just the absolute worst of the worst because they’ve been
made to feel that way and they begin to seek it out and it’s a pattern right that deserves to be broken
and i believe we have the capacity and the strength with kindness and compassion to show these people that
there is another avenue that there’s absolutely a different way to live your life
um and when i talk about my experience that’s that’s what i try and focus on is the healing journey afterwards you know
um i think that’s what’s important not not what my abuser was
thinking at the time but knowing that there’s hope and there’s life
after something like that yes as long as it can be identified as long as there’s
a base level of knowledge that can be identified so it doesn’t happen again and that and that the will has been
restored to choose to no matter what’s going on to get out of an abusive situation you know
but you have the power within yourself to choose a better life to thrive and
that you deserve that your feelings are valid you are valid and you are worthy
of living your best life yeah that’s the kind of path yes it is and the the not sad part or
well it is sad too is that some people actually will um they get off on it you know so
they will put on this pretending yeah that they they will claim that it’s not but they actually get off on the abuse
the cycles of abuse and covering it up and hiding it from people you know and trying to fool other people with it and
so and they think they can gain more power and control by pulling one off on
everybody else right this level of deceit and deception which i have another level coming up with about not
really no i’m talking about i’m talking about psychopathy
psychopaths with psychopaths yeah so yeah
a lot of these levels of deception it’s just so rampant and i’ve got an event coming up later this month about
discerning deception so i will definitely tune into that um i’ve really loved what you’ve had to say
sharing the space with you and i appreciate you you know giving me this time to speak well thanks for actually
sticking around and call or you know joining and sharing and all the the good things you’re doing to appreciate it
thank you thank you it said it’s an okay place to be in right now you know
of course okay and that’s okay it’s all right yes it is and that i love that mantra of radical acceptance the
only thing that doesn’t apply to though is abuse right so you know if you’re going through abuse
it’s not okay you have to do whatever you can to get out of that situation right so survival looks different for
everybody right so don’t have some grace with yourself yes be kind to yourself did what you had to do
absolutely aftermath do what it takes to get back to being you absolutely love
enlightened friends thank you so much samantha for sharing it’s lovely and with that i will end this
and may you all be blessed with a beautiful experience of non-harm a lot of times
that means helping helping ourselves and others
Integrating Presence 
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