You Teach Me

This June 23 Insight Timer live event was described thus:

A (brief) experiment where (you) the audience teach me anything you’d like. It could be from the spiritual journey, inner work, everyday life, work, play, groups, family, friends, enemies, frenemies, relationships, etc. I may fill in gaps with how to approach teachers and others for information, wisdom, knowledge, teachings, etc.

“When the student is ready the teacher/master will appear. When the student is really ready the teacher/master will disappear.”

Related blog posts:

• How To Find (Meditation) Teachers
• Ask Anyone Anything? Live With Whom? Minor “Ask Us Anything” Restart? includes links to:
  • Wisdom Snippets: Inquiry / Investigation
  • Why and Why Not to Question/Inquire

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Listen to the full unedited version of this talk with or without the Wisdom App: https://join.wisdom.audio/oxBs

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My pre-event notes:

• Mostly teachers in buddhist groups
• Intent? Genuine, sincere interest (not (just) to look smart, gain merit, etc)
• Audience and time allotted/involved
• clear and concise (pre-formulated or not)
• Appropriate honor and respect: not too much or too little
• prioritize questions and requests for maximum benefit for all
• relatable antidotes necessary and helpful and appropriate?
• current perceptions of Eastern/Buddhist lay audiences as Westerner:
  • Pros (some also in western:)
    • respect
    • honor
    • appreciation
    • inspiring
    • valuable
    • humility
    • order
    • cohesiveness
    • harmony
    • functionality
    • community
  • Cons:
    • “I didn’t know how to act.” “Me either.”
    • Am I being perceived as opposite of aforementioned qualities (and also disruptive)? Why would this be important?
    • I shy away if strange/foreign formalities so importance of training
    • Assimilation/hive mind?
    • How is hierarchy different?
    • Compare and contrast Eastern and Western perceptions of less than, greater than, equal to
• Ask others, friends and teachers for recommendations based on interests and intent/goals
• If it’s not apparent and someone’s body of work is large and you just discovered them ask where/what of theirs to start with
• How does one’s informal methods differ from formal and how could you find out?

• How about with mentoring?
• Depending on their workload it’s a good sign if you seek them out and they ask to take you on (without you asking first)

• How do you approach folks to gather information? Is it like:
  • CIA/FBI
  • asking for directions
  • mafia
  • buying something
  • handout
  • from a friend
  • from family
  • need help
  • want to help
  • via small talk (starters)
  • mutual interests/connections

I somehow did not mention that the greatest teacher is the inner teacher

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Or listen via Insight Timer (app or website)

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The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:

a quick intro here to say

if you’re going to listen to this

it’s going to be minimally edited

so you’re going to have to put up with a

lot of my sews and sews arms and

uh

and i’m editing out the live caller to

save time if you’re interested in that

in the full unedited podcast

check the

link

in the show notes to the wisdom

Talk

app recording

hold us and welcome

this is josh dibble integrating presence

again

and maybe i’ll come up with a new intro

sometime other than that just become a

habit now today’s event

you teach me

and the description i have for this

is a brief experiment where you the

audience teach me anything you’d like it

could be from the spiritual journey

inner work everyday life work play

groups family friends enemies

frenemies relationships etc and i may

fill in gaps with how to approach

teachers and others for information

wisdom

knowledge teachings etc

so i added a little bit to the

description

of what i had written

so

this is

your time where you can jump in here

and teach me something what have you

learned um

not just to teach me

but what you could do specifically

um or i mean that you could teach other

people as well

so it could apply to me it could apply

to the audience actually it could apply

to nobody if you want to just if you

think that you would be better off

talking to a wall and you feel brave

enough to share you can do that i guess

to jump in here to what i had prepared

um i wanted to mention that there’s some

related posts to this

and if i publish this as a podcast i’ll

throw in the the notes but the if you

just uh search my website for these

articles you can find it how to find

meditation teachers and then they ask

anyone anything live with whom minor ask

us anything restart that post that long

title um

that i did a live on includes links to

the following

um blog post to

wisdom snippets inquiry and

investigation

and

why and why not to question and inquire

or question slash inquire so this big

quote that i felt was relevant for this

is something along the lines i’m

probably paraphrasing here is when the

student is ready the teacher or master

will appear and when the student is

really ready the teacher or master will

disappear you know basically meaning

probably you’re not going to find the

right teacher or master or even material

if you’re not ready for it right so

that’s kind of a built-in safeguard to

information and teachings we’re really

not ready for but when we’re really

ready then you know it’s kind of like

graduation the student or the teacher

master will disappear right

this kind of relating here that i’ll do

is to

basically addressing

buddhist groups that i have

joined so these are like zoom groups

that i’ve joined

and they’re fairly prominent teachers on

there and especially ones that i really

kind of admired and

joined and asked questions i’ve got a

couple on a couple of these instances on

my website i think ajahn amaro and uh

thanos arabico

kind of thanos arabico is a prolific

translator of early buddhist texts but

also a profound like practitioner and

lots of wisdom too

so i think one of the big things to any

time we’re going to ask for teachings

and information

and knowledge

wisdom from folks

it is our intent i feel it starts with

our intent you know is our intent

genuine is it sincere interest like i

mentioned earlier and it’s not just to

look smart or gain merit uh this kind of

thing so

really i mean it doesn’t always have to

be done but it’s really

worthwhile i feel to reflect on one’s

intent for seeking knowledge and wisdom

it could be it doesn’t have to be right

or wrong it’s just being aware of that

intent also um the audience and time a

lot involved in these particular things

um so it depends like who’s the audience

for who’s the audience present if it’s

on zoom how much time is allotted for

questions and answers i know i’ve kind

of went overboard

with with my questions i feel a little

bit it was uh about being clear and

concise i feel that’s important too is

it pre

whether it’s pre-formulated or not

questions

and is it am i showing the appropriate

level of honor and respect

not too much and not too little

sometimes it can be overboard just kind

of like fawning and um

really not feeling worthy to talk and

this kind of thing or just

going on and on overboard but then

there’s the opposite where it’s just

like not being respectful or showing any

honor at all hardly if at all

Pros Cons

prioritizing questions and requests for

the maximum benefit of all so this is

just like icing on the case cake i guess

if one can prioritize their questions

that they have asked you know depending

on the time amount allotted and if

everybody can benefit from the question

i think that might factor into which

ones to ask and what kind of wisdom to

go after too

and are

if you’re going to tell any relatable

antidotes are they necessary helpful and

appropriate i know i had one antidote

ready to go

kind of relating a certain teaching from

a teacher in real life but i got cut off

probably thankfully because um it

probably wasn’t um i don’t either

appropriate it probably wasn’t necessary

depending mostly because the time

allotted wasn’t there and there was

other people wanting to ask questions

too viewing kind of eastern buddhist lay

audience as a westerner the pros and

cons of that

kind of some observations about

eastern lay audiences as a westerner

so here’s some of the pros of what i’ve

noticed about this and these are

actually a lot of these are also in

western

cultures

i guess at least in my limited very

limited experience

western cultures and spiritual

traditions maybe some religious

traditions so of course the prose that

i’ve noticed in eastern lay audiences

buddhist audiences is there’s a bunch of

respect

and honor

and appreciation for the teachers

it’s inspiring to see so many uh

practicing and studying

the value it’s very valuable

as well people

find lots of great things and help in

their lives there’s also um plenty of

humility as well

and there’s a display of order and

cohesiveness

and harmony

in the community and a big sense of

community and it’s also a like

functionality like certain people have

certain roles it just seems to kind of

all

work well together when it works well

together you know what i mean so some of

the i guess cons of this

um i’ll start off here

by one of the teachers that i sat down

and had tea with uh in kind of a more

formal tea ceremony and i have never

done anything like that and later when i

was meeting with him

i said you know i mentioned that and i

said i didn’t know how to act and then

he said me either and so that

immediately made some cool rapport and

just kind of brought everything back

down to earth um and uh yeah it was

that was a time to be formal and kind of

figure out how to do formal things and

and then when i was chatting with them

more informally then it wasn’t

so also

you know this is one of the things

that’s helped me a lot is this saying

what other people think about me is none

of my business

at the same time

we’re trying to be respectful

and

follow culture and protocols and things

like this so

sometimes can’t help but wonder am i

being perceived as the opposite of those

aforementioned wonderful great qualities

beautiful qualities i just mentioned and

maybe also disruptive for not being able

to do so and why would this be important

this perception like i say sometimes the

feeling that if you don’t follow it then

it might be disrespect disrespectful i

know in the

zen tradition

a few times that i’ve been involved with

that

i kind of shy away from strange informal

formalities which is actually a good

flag that

of the importance of training in that so

in the zen tradition from what i

understand at least the soto’s in very

few times that i’ve um sat formally with

a community like that there’s a whole

there’s there’s lots of bowing and

there’s a certain

i guess container or protocol

of things that go around it’s not just

sitting in meditation there’s other

things involved bowing um

in a certain order i guess i don’t know

how to put it exactly and of course

walking and then

bell ringing

possibly chanting suits to reading but

it’s it’s orderly and the thing about it

is

in one way i immediately jumped to oh

that’s restrictive that’s um

you know too stifling it’s too

ritualistic it’s

it’s like a habit however

this is where one’s meditation practice

could possibly go to the next level the

nice thing about zen practice is it

gives kind of a a regimen a strict a

stricter schedule

so where

a lot of unnecessary

kind of needs in things that don’t have

to be done don’t have to be done anymore

because it’s laid out the practice

session the way things go people know

what kind of expect kind of get in a

routine so anything unnecessary can fall

away also within those containers in

those movements and going through the

movements and kind of rituals um and

habits

can pay very attention to the slight

changes in those you know how far you

bow the timing of the bows the

reaction of other folks my reaction to

the other folks’s reaction of how

they’re doing it either the same or

differently in your perception so even

though it does create kind of a limiting

container in one sense it also can draw

attention to very slight minute

changes in details which can help

heighten perception and awareness i feel

Cons

so some of going back now to some of the

cons of this i wonder if it’s um

assimilation

in hive mind sometimes when i’ve used um

east some of the eastern cultures and

and lay buddhist things and by that i

mean

even though there’s a

tradition of open inquiry sometimes

um people are afraid to speak up and ask

questions and that’s okay too and i was

also wondering how are the hierarchies

different compared to kind of western

traditions

and also the

the comparing and contrasting eastern

western perceptions of you know oh i’m

not as good as this person or i’m better

than that person or i’m just as good as

that person these these conceits we have

and you know i think conceit

runs across all boundaries so no matter

what walks of life we go in it seems

like either we

and our others that we encounter will

have these conceit of oh i’m better than

that person but also the inferior

conceit of i’m not as good as them and

then the most subtle one is oh i’m just

as good as you know of course there’s

equity and equality that we should

strive for especially in that everybody

deserves more love not less right but

this subtle conceit of or and at the

same time the subtle conceit of oh i’m

just as good as that person well i often

say well i could never match your unique

brilliance nor could you match mine and

it’s it’s good that way because if we

were all just the same you know it would

there would be no diversity would all be

like a gray blob hive mind and now the

paradox of unity though sometimes we get

too steeped in diversity and we forget

the unity that we’re all the

commonalities between us as well so i

think one of the one teachers i’ve heard

it’s like yes we’re all

kind of one but we’re all different

expressions of that oneness even though

i’m not too fond of oneness i like

interdependence

interconnectedness okay so

that out of the way now we can also ask

others friends and teachers for

recommendations based on interest and

intents and goals so this is pretty

pretty much everybody’s heard this

before right if you’re interested in

certain um

teachings or whatever you you have your

intents and your goals and what you want

to learn or what you might want to learn

and you just ask friends and teachers

and other people you bump into what

their recommendations are you know maybe

based on your mutual interest or just

your own interest which you and they

might know

um which you’d like to study and also if

if you’re going to a teacher i guess or

um some expert i’m not fond of that

either or somebody you want to study

with or potentially study with and they

it’s not and um if somebody’s body of

work is really large like they’ve

written a lot of books given a lot of

talks um do a lot of stuff and you’ve

just discovered them you know and it’s

not immediately apparent to you just you

can ask you know where do i start with

your material what’s a good jumping on

place maybe in general or for me also

if you’re going to someone

to learn stuff one thing that’s

overlooked i feel is informal methods so

they’re informal methods stuff that’s

not recorded stuff they really don’t do

up in front of groups and audiences

how did their informal methods differ

from their formal ones and how could you

find this out

this is kind of where you go up at the

end of a talk and maybe get to talk to

them one-on-one you can take a retreat

possibly with them maybe ask if they

have some time later to chat

and then you can kind of see them away

from the limelight and get it maybe a

little bit different picture a different

idea of how they are how they might

teach informally and also kind of notice

any consistencies or inconsistencies

when they’re not in the public eye

versus when they are

so what about mentoring anything you’ve

learned about working with mentors

anything you’ve learned about mentoring

others

now this is something that i would like

to learn from you guys because i haven’t

really done this formally you know i

don’t really consider anyone a mentor

per se at least in real life right and

mentoring usually implies an active

process i would think um

mostly for me it’s just teachers and

teachings maybe trainers trainings

um also depending on their workload it’s

a good sign if you go and seek someone

out and they ask to take you on without

you asking them first i feel that’s a

pretty decent idea a decent sign anyway

that that you guys are a good pa

match is if they ask you

to

be mentored by them without you asking

first

so what about and then probably going on

the home stretch here

information gathering so let’s say you

just want to gather some information it

doesn’t have to be anything like

spiritual related i mean it could just

be everyday life you need to know

something you’re curious about something

maybe you want to stick your nose into

something you probably shouldn’t be

sticking your nose into so i was just

wondering how do you ask for information

and i’ll just give some examples here so

is it like the fbi or rcia are you

approaching people and situations and

and your reality like that to get

information or is it like asking for

directions what about are you going in

like the mafia and demanding to know

stuff or you’ll break some kneecaps or

something um

are you gathering information like

you’re buying something like you will

just pay for it and get it you know i

got the money i’ll just go get it or the

opposite of where i’m gonna go get

information like a handout i’ll just beg

for it um is it kind of friendly like

you’re getting information from a friend

you treat other people like friends and

when you’re in need of information or

like family

um think about if you’re

curious about things from family members

some information you’d like or maybe

some information you wouldn’t like from

friends and family members

do you approach information gathering

like you need help so

kind of asking for help from people or

the opposite of that or the other

polarity of that or wanting to help so

you’re gathering information in order to

help others help yourself what about

small talk so you’re just

kind of

talking about the weather and something

happens to come up and

either start there or that’s the

information

and that’s how you do it so the last one

here i’ve got or do you connect with

people on mutual interest and

connections so a lot of people love to

talk about what they have in common um

and also the folks they have in common

connections that way kind of build

rapport and with that i think i will

wrap this up may all beings everywhere

be safe in an inside and out may all

beings everywhere be happy and joyful

may all beings everywhere be healthy and

strong may all beings everywhere live

knowing ease and may all beings realize