For this month’s regular open-audience, open-discussion “Ask Us Anything” — continuing discussions about meditation and related topics — Denny and I talk about caring for caregivers. Topics, not necessarily in order, include:
- The Four Brahmaviharas, translated as The Four Immeasurables, Divine Abodes, or Sublime Abidings
- Loving-Kindness
- Compassion
- Empathy/Sympathetic Joy/Altruistic Joy/Vicarious Joy/Rejoicing
- Equanimity
- [also see the Integrating Presence post Inclusive Compassion Practice (as not to neglect the other Bhramaviharas, or Sublime Abidings)]
- Compassion fatigue
- Denny’s caregiving journey with his father diagnosed with dementia
- My experiences with my late grandmother and dementia
- Pain vs Suffering
- Survival instinct and survival programming
- Spiritual practice as care for caregivers
- “Buddhism” as misrepresentative Western term
- Dhamma
- Mindfulness and how it’s like holding the hand of a child while crossing the street
- Four Noble Truths
- Five Hinderances
- Death as one of the Five Daily Reflections
Integrating Presence’s long linked list of Healing Modalities and Resources
What is true, real, authentic non-inverted care, and does this differ coming from men and women? If so, how?
a core question about care
Other related resources:
Understanding Care (There’s plenty in this video presentation I’d like to see put differently, and in a different way and manner, however there is a significant amount I align with so I’m sharing for research purposes)
Corona-19, Hypertension And Qi | (2/23/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu)
An Integrating Presence Meditation: Breathing 9 Beneficial Energies Into Embodiment
Audio: Caregiving Roundtable: Caring For The Givers | (9/28/2021 — “Ask Us Anything – LIVE” With Denny K Miu)
Join Denny live Saturdays online for Yi Jin Jing and mindful joint, stretching, breathing, and qi exercises via:
Full list of links at DennyKMiu.com
The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
Okay. Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. Hi, everyone. Welcome to another
episode of AUA. Ask us anything Good afternoon, Josh. How are
you? Hi, this is Danny. What’s going on? I’m doing well. How are you? Good. Good. So, we had
a um we’ve been wanting to do this particular topic for a while and about Caregiving.
It’s both you and I have on. Um Caregiving. and um so so um the
topic hasn’t changed the format. I wish I wish we had started with this format which is more of a Roundtable and um
uh actually uh someone trying to get access to
Okay. Well, Denny, why you do that? I’ll jump in here with my little disclaimer. So, uh
depending on who all joins and or what Denny and I say, I just wanted to say that you know,
obviously, we’re not doctors. I mean, that’s pretty obvious. um and that this is not medical
advice. Anything you hear, we’re just sharing our thoughts and experiences and uh
everything here. I welcome feedback. So you know, know, if something is inaccurate, please
write in and contact us so we can correct it because I don’t um you know, I don’t really would rather not have um wrong
information out there and misleading information and the things at least I say will be
for your own research, a starting point in your own research perhaps and that is not to believe or disbelieve
anything we say but to you know, look into it for yourself because ultimately, everybody needs to see and know for their
own selves. Uh not just take what’s said on um by on its face alone and then and then
also you know take what’s helpful and leave the rest. So,
anything that’s not going to be helpful for you. um just just leave it behind and you can take a long what is helpful.
So, and as well. Um yeah. Yeah. Let
me let me let me. Yeah. So, so we have a student who’s trying to get in and uh I don’t know
why the link doesn’t work for her Um but anyway, um um uh just in in the spirit of eco
time since um Josh took a little bit of time for the disclaimer and let me do the anti disclaimer. If you just if
you follow what I said on the internet, you are a bigger fool than you think you are and I
think you are. Okay so This is your fault. Yeah. If you if
you, I’m full of **** and if you want to follow me, that’s your problem. Basically, what I
said, maybe you’re not. So, not that so many words but yeah. well, anyway, um the the reason
um so so anyway, we we were we had a different format with different format in my uh in my
uh and and matter of fact, I wish I wish we had we had done the Roundtable instead of interview. The interview is a
little bit too formal and uh I wish I wish we had done this one and and uh so People are
trying to get in here and um so I don’t know why they can’t get in. Um anyway, um tell them to
use a different browser. Try a different browser. I think it’s a use a chrome chrome browser.
It might be well, match is actually on YouTube. So so she can us. She just can’t join
with the discussion. So hopefully um it could just be the the the browser that she’s
using but anyway, I don’t I don’t yeah you can try a different browser Also you can chat on YouTube I think too and
possibly we can read the chats to the Do you have that up to read the live chat? You? Yeah,
I am reading the, I’m reading the chapter very well. Okay. Okay. So, so here, here’s my thought on what I like to do
today and and Joshua. Anybody can chime in and see if that’s the the right approach to you.
So, so I thought that um since today’s uh is uh caregiver
Roundtable like Caregiving, Roundtable. I thought that um
so what what what Josh and I was talking about is this, that if we focus on the Caregiving
part It is so individualized. you know, in my case, I’m
caring for my dad Who’s who’s, who’s diabetic and uh and and suffering from dementia.
Someone else might have some other problems. So, it’s shoved of those are so individualized that it’s actually very hard to
find something in common. Where’s the caregivers are
practically the same. You know, we we are we are actually suffering from the the same
problem which is that um There’s just not a whole lot of support for us and so when I
talk about the caregiver, Roundtable is really meant for that. It’s it’s really a peer support. um and consistent with
what I’ve been calling the the fellowship, you know, in the
sense that II actually think of Caregiving as a spiritual practice That’s how I see it
Now, originally, we had um scheduled for Samantha them to
be our uh uh uh speaker to do the interview and so I had
prepared this one slide which came from her book came from her book um which You know, and
you can just read that. I think it’s a very good lesson um and I’m I assume that the answer
lies in her book. So, if anyone who’s interested, um they they should um uh look up uh uh what
what she has to say but um Josh, I want that list. Is
there one or two items that you like to talk about first? You know what? Maybe you can put
the list back up then. Um I don’t know what The one thing that jumps out to me um uh
that’s I don’t know if it’s on this list or not here. Excuse me while I lean in because my nearsightedness, the big thing
I usually hear about a lot is um this this term which I don’t really um find all that helpful
uh at least once you kind kind of uh dissect it a little bit is compassion fatigue Now, I
think that’s kind of a misnomer or I don’t really feel that. That’s such a thing that the
reason it can seem that way. It definitely um but the thing is
that it’s there’s not enough if that happens, there’s not enough self compassion, right?
Because how do we meet something that needs uh compassion when you need it with compassion. So, if you’re
getting tired from compassion, that only really thing that can be needed then is more
compassion and at that point, it’s self compassion Well, I think that I think that’s
that’s that’s that’s that’s an amazing question, Josh that I think that’s a great question.
Um so let me if if if I may let me let me talk about my tick on
that. So, my first of all, um let me back up a step and so in
in in studying Buddhism, we talk about the four
immeasurable. So, we talk about compassion, love, and kindness, empathy, and the question
always is that what exactly is the difference between between compassion, compassion, and and
and loving kindness is is easier to explain because compassion is at least at least
if I were to translate from Chinese compassion is is is someone who’s who’s always
there to want to solve problem. Where’s Loving kindness is not
necessarily the soft people’s problem but they just provide that feeling of love and so I
always equate that to the mother and the father. You know that you run to the you run to
your dad because and your dad would solve the problem for you, you know, and then the mom
would just give you the the the the love. It’s not exact but
that’s sort of how I understood the different. the question then is that what is the difference between compassion
empathy because again, my generation, I’m I’m quite a bit older than you but in my
generation, not only in terms of my age but also in terms of my background being from the
third row and all that III would have to say that we don’t within the empathy all that
much. we’re in the same compassion but we don’t quite understand empathy. So, for example, I often have to to
have this discussion with my wife. You know, when the kids come to us, we’d like to solve a problem. We just like, this
is what you do. You know, and then like this and then half the time, actually more than
half the time, you know, all the time, That’s not what they want to hear. That’s not what they want to hear. They just
thought that they come to you and share uh with you and rather than sharing, we just we
just it’s not like we want to shut off the conversation. It’s just that it’s much more natural for us the way that we
were we were brought up to just say, you know, let’s just solve the problem and move on. So so me the difference between
compassion and empathy is at least that’s my interpretation is that empathy is compassion
without judgement. without judgement because ultimately,
it leads to equanimity which is equanimity is sensation without
perception. It’s it’s it’s really using your spiral cord so that you you you really
understand what’s going on without really making your own judgment, right? So, when you
say compassion fatigue, that’s real. That’s real. and and and so compassion, fatigue is is
when you can’t when you when you when you’re when you throw
your entire um being into what you do and then you find out
that it’s just way too much. and and whereas a lot of time, you just have to kind of stand
back and say, hey, I am here to provide love and kindness or or
or without actually getting emotionally involved Does that
make sense? Yeah, it it does. So, I’ll jump into my take on
the rum is here too um and that’s that’s interesting. So, this is to make sure that I
understand your right the the empathy part you said is um
Caring without judgment, right? Where compassion is Caring with
with wanting to do something about it, right? and then equanimity is um without uh uh
um kind of without perception, right? Is is that how you explain it because those are
those are new ways of understanding it for me. I went to to to to rehash that and get
uh get that IIIII II understand
what you said and I understand that might be what you think. I said II think that what I said
might not be accurate. It might not be because it’s a it’s a concept. It’s very very
difficult to explain So, let me just back off and say, We in in
in Buddhism, we we talk about Guin
the Buddha of Mercy. and I often explain to my parents or
whoever else. I said, have you ever noticed that Juan’s eye is
always looking down You walk up to the statue, you can never
see her eye because she doesn’t care who you are. She does not
judge you. She’s not going to say, oh Josh, he’s a good guy.
Danny. He’s he’s just murdered someone. I’m not going to deal
with that. No. As far as he is concerned, as far as the police
officer’s concerned, she does, he or she does not judge Okay. So to me, um Gans represents
all four compassion, love, and kindness, empathy, and
equanimity. Now, how exactly do I differentiate that? I don’t know the totality of that is
what is what one represents. Uh beautiful. Lovely. Yes. And there’s no, yeah, it’s just
like uh here’s the cries of the world, right? So, um so the way
I look at the Brahmas, you know, um it is through uh the poly and what I’ve been taught
in practice too and I really like Denny’s uh translation of um Modi as uh um empathy. Uh
it’s often translated as um vicarious I really like that one too. So, uh the thing is
though, that Mota is a celebration as well. So, it’s being happy for other people’s
happiness. It’s the way it’s kind of taught in the Tabata tradition. Um sympathetic joy.
So, it’s like I think the Dalai Lama once said something like, well, there’s how many billion people in the world? um well
that increases our chance for happiness if we can be happy for their happiness. Now, this
is one of the most challenging things for me uh is the it’s being happy for people’s happiness. Jump in here. No,
no, no. This is the key. This is the key. Let’s bring it back to let’s bring it back to
Caregiving. Yes. And let’s bring it back to what you and I
call compassion fatigue. Okay. So, I’ll use myself as an example. II in the past. I talk
about how my dad who suffers from dementia. He goes in and out now more and more. He
doesn’t recognize me. There was a there A time when he recognized me and then he get
confused. He get confused when all of a sudden he see me taking up the needle, injecting
insulin, or checking his blood or you know, all these technical things that I do. He
just, he does not equate that with his son. That’s not the son that he knows. So, as soon
as I do anything like that, he he thinks that I’m a worker and
you could just tell just his demeanor changes. He’s actually much more courteous. uh with me
as his son, you know, is the usual uh father and son kind of kind of expression now more and
more I would say almost 100% now, he doesn’t recognize me as as uh as his son. In fact,
yesterday, he even questioned my my mom because now he he at
least he recognized my mom as his wife and he recognized my he actually asked my wife Ask
his wife. My mom. why she called me her son? She’s
totally confused. He he’s totally confused about that. Now, the question is, as a
caregiver, typically, this is very painful to see this kind
of degeneration in your loved one
you really , really, really want. that person to get better
and so in addition to the physical, Caregiving, there is the emotional Caregiving
because you really want, you want that, you want that in return. You know, you like to be able to help you there and
then you really, it’s really good that if you’re there recognizes you as your son as
as his son now I actually use all my spiritual
practice as a caregiver and so I practice equanimity. I
practice empathy. I practice loving kindness. I practice compassion. So, what you just
said about empathy is happiness. for sake of other
people’s happiness. Well, that’s not. that’s the okay. So, empathy is a little bit
different than um what what I was talking about but the Pow is um uh mota. So, you’re
translating it or that’s translation empathy which I don’t think is wrong by any means. I’m just however
translating it as being happy for other people’s happiness. um while empathy doesn’t really
judge, it just feels what another person is feeling. Yeah. So you’re, you know, putting yourself in their shoes
and actually here’s a plug that I have an article coming up about Dharma strategies for
empaths. It’s the longest of roads in nine sections. So, uh stay tuned for that but anyway,
um going back to what Denny was saying, you know, the closest thing I came to this is when my
grandmother she got the the same type of way towards the end where she didn’t even really know who anybody was
anymore at all. So, I mean for me, it Just at first, it was
annoying, right? Um the fam, our family was like, oh, you’ve told us that so many times You
keep repeating the same thing over and over again and so, it was like this kind of frustration in our family about
her repeating the same things over and over and then also, you know, forgetting things and
just kind of the the same repetitive behavior and um so one thing it taught me is
patience because how frustrating It was at first but then it just kind of got like
wow. I mean, this is really possible for the human mind to to degrade this much and um so
I was looking for silver linings to to this and one thing I noticed about my
grandmother is that there were some things uh she kept repeating that were really
actually important in her life. Some things about um let’s just say an abusive situation she
was in. She would repeat that over and over to me and These are things that she had clung
on to her whole life. So, this was a way that was kind of
forcing her to let go of it. Now, I’m not saying this is going to be the case and everybody’s situation and this
could be totally a delusion of my part. I don’t know but as it went on that that story that
she was clinging and complaining about over and over again, it finally fell away at one point although, you know,
obviously some uh more positive things like recognizing people also did That was one silver
lining. The other one was just like Denny was saying with spiritual practice, it’s just to be present with something
that is just so unbearably unpleasant. Um it just, I don’t
know. It’s just like this inner agitation that I was feeling when I was with her. um hearing
these things and being completely really oblivious to pretty much everything that was going on with her and around
her. Um The thing that I learn is that is that um all living
beings, all living beings, whether it’s human being or um
You know, like a piece of grass. The number one priority,
the number one priority is to survive. You know, so this is
back in the days when I was a junior professor at UCLA UCLA
was was kind of interesting. It it was first known as the South campus of the University of
California Berkeley. That’s what is known and then so it had to grow into the in the
shadow of the the the number one campus which is UC Berkeley where where I where I did my my
study and so time I got down to GC, I noticed it’s very different. They they pay a lot
of attention on the landscape. You know, it’s one of the most beautiful and it it out that
the chancellor actually um started his day just walking on
it. There’s no everybody knows that walking along the the campus, they’re making sure that all the landscape is
right. He knows everybody. He knows all of ours and so it’s it’s it’s very very meticulous.
I mean, just beautiful campus and so as I was walking to
class, I noticed that however much you try to mow the lawn or
to kill the wheat, they keep growing, They just keep growing because all living beings want
to want to stay alive, okay? So, I think one of the things that we we underestimate is how
people suffer from dementia find a way to survive. a lot of
the pain that I see people express when they are, when they are with people with
dementia. I’m not from the patient. the that that person like, you know, making my day.
I, you know, I keep talking about my dad because he’s the only person I know who suffers from dementia He’s not The
problem is not. he he he’s he’s not suffering from mental illness. He’s he’s suffering from a brain deficiency. So,
it’s an extension of his diabetes. So, basically, parts of his brain brain are not
communicating It’s very interesting that he recognizes all his grandchildren. He
recognized all his grandchildren but he doesn’t recognize me or my brothers or
my mom most of the time, You know, not even my mom. because
for him in his brain, he has a part where he we were much younger than we are today and
so he doesn’t make the connection. He doesn’t understand how this could possibly be my son because my
son used to look like this, you know, because we just we just gotten so old. You
Where’s the grandkids? I think in his mind, they they don’t change that much and so he
recognized them. So, so he it’s not like he’s in pain. Always
worry about, you know, how come these people are not with me because he even said that, you know how I don’t understand why
my three sons have abandoned me. He said that he said that
to me and now I can just take him and check him and say, you
know, I’m here. I’m here or I can just say, oh wow, I don’t
either. I just work here. You know what comes to me is I
wonder if it’s just kind of like a regression, You know, it’s going back into a
childhood, a child like state for whatever reasons maybe to
um to resolve things in childhood. Who knows? I mean, now I’m sounding like an arbitrary psychologist Um but
yeah, Denny, I just wow II didn’t know that until now. You just you just uh so um so so my
my observation is that being a human being even if you suffer
from dementia, you’re still human. Being the number one um objective for human being or
any kind of being is to survive. So, the thing that we underestimate is how much they
have change. the existence just
to survive and so,
If they have a question about why their family abandoned them and they have a equally
important question about who are these people who are caring for me, instead of trying to
find the the the the the answer in try to try to find that connection which what you and I
would think, you know, it’s right here and right here, you know, pull it together because it’s just too painful for them
to put it together and so they will avoid that decision. They would just say, okay, fine, I’m
going to put that aside and I’m just going to focus on how to
just live day by day now dealing with this new set of people who have actually here
Caring for me Most of the paint that I see. I actually see this
all the time when my relatives come visit my dad, you know, like his his siblings and the
first thing they would do is say, do you recognize me? I’m so insult. They even, you know, bring pictures and say, you know, do you remember this? And
I’m just like, shut the **** up. Get the **** out of here. You’re just making more pain for them. You know, it’s more,
it’s actually more. Why are you doing this? He doesn’t need any of this **** Well, it’s uh it’s
a good point, Denny. Um and you know, another but but then
again, they don’t know that. So they have to be told that too. Uh they don’t know that because
because they’re not they’re not AA. Nobody knows that. Well,
that’s right. Nobody knows that. Nobody knows that and and
so when I talk about caring for the caregiver, what I’m really
talking about is how important it is to bring spiritual practice. to the Givers and
this override the it’s the it’s the only way to survive. There’s no other way that you
can help this person, okay? Because Caregiving, especially if you’re not doing as a
profession. So, if you’re doing a profession, then there’s nothing that there’s there’s there’s no such thing as
compassion fatigue because when you clock out, you clock out, it’s you know, is someone
else’s problem. It’s a different shift but when you came for your loved ones, there is no caulking out. That’s
right. And and so, the compassion fatigue is part of the game and so, how do you
deal with that? How do you deal with that? The only way you can deal with that is to get on
with the program which is to get on with the spiritual practice that we’ve been talking about. Well,
absolutely. you know, we have to carve out time for ourselves uh to do that with the distance
away from the Caregiving at least if even just for a short amount of time, it has to be
right, Denny, you have to, I mean, you have to have some
time away. just a little bit for a spiritual practice even though you’re you’re still
doing the spiritual practice interwoven into it. Um and yeah so yeah so so so
You can talk about. you can you can think of the spiritual practice as as downtime, you know, just just just like
caring for yourself and to to have the time where you can kind of say, hey, you know II just need some downtime. Now,
you can think of it like that. That’s that’s the back in the days, You know, when you used to go to Disneyland and you you
you get a book of tickets, Okay? So that’s AA ticket. Okay. so what’s the E ticket?
Alright, the E ticket is the one that you know, you you get to do the the miracles, the big rise. So what’s the big ride?
You know what’s what is it just come back to to knowing the
knowing the difference between pain and suffering. That’s it. Knowing that because when you
what what we call emotional pain, It’s actually just
physical pain because this is the difference that your brain
is physical. The brain is part of the body.
So, when we talk about last time when we had uh be on the show, we talk about physicality
versus spirituality material versus mentality. The one thing
that we have to make very clear is that the brain belongs to material The brain belongs to
material it. So, when you see, when you when when you see someone and you’re in pain, you
have to understand that that’s that’s still only a physical pain. That’s still only
physical pain. but you continue to suffer. okay? You continue
to suffer. it’s it’s when it gone beyond your brain. It’s
actually gone beyond your brain. There’s a whole new world out there that is beyond your physical body. When that
part, when when when that’s the suffering part, that is the suffering part. Okay? So,
You can’t really do this without bringing in our Buddhist teaching. You know, we
we go around in circles trying to make this um a secular. You can’t do it. You can’t do it.
You you really have to get into the core of the teaching of Buddha to really understand how
to help a caregiver and it comes down to this. It comes
down to
When Buddha became enlightened. He did that under the booty
tree. Being a nightmare means that he he finally elevated himself to a spiritual being
beyond what we call the realm of desire. beyond the body, beyond our uh eye, a nose, a
mouth, a tongue, a body, and a brain. what he encounter was
called Mara. Mara.
Who is Mara? Mara is the person who’s actually guarding the
realm of desire. So, he is that person that his job is to
prevent us from escaping The remedies are he is the guy that
want to make sure that we are constantly suffering and the suffering A caregiver is the
ticket to suffering. okay? It is the E ticket to suffering. So, how do you, what is the
solution? How do you have to bring in the Buddhist teaching? The Buddhist teaching is this. It’s just very simple. that the
way your mind works. I’m not talking about the brain. The man, what mind works is we talk
about the five scanners we talk about the form the sensation,
the perception, the Sahara, and the consciousness. somewhere in
there is going from mentality Somewhere in there is going from material to mentality.
That’s when it actually the sensations get collected in the spiral cord. We call that sensation. It get delivered
your brain. We call that perception and then you actually generate what’s called
mental factors. The fifty-one mental factors, what we call the versus the Esa the crystals
are the one that is wholesome or skillful and the a chrysalis
are the one that is AA uh unwholesome and then we take
out of the fifty-one mental factors more than two third of them are a hose unwholesome.
Then, what we do is we summarize that into the five hindrances
when you’re caring for someone, whether you are a caregiver or
a care providers, the five hindrances that’s right in
front of you. It is as clear as a book
What causes suffering as a caregivers. The first one is
called clinging. You are clinging to something that that
that you prefer that that that is a good feeling. It’s the I cling to my father. I want I
think about how we used to spend time together when I was a child that he would hold my
hand, walk me down the shore
after work. Talk to me about the movie we just watched or he
taught me how to ride a bicycle or he taught me how to swim. I cling to that I cling to that.
That’s the first hindrances. It’s called clinging. The
second hindrances of that is either aversion or ill will is
that when you’re when you’re when you when you encounter feeling or that you don’t like.
You react negatively. You get upset either at the person or at yourself. Most of the time
when the caregivers are upset at the at the current receivers, they are upset at
themself Okay. They’re upset at themselves. So, my mom and I
are co Givers. So, I take two shifts. She takes one shift IIII, go there III wouldn’t say
that I take one and a half. She she takes one and a half shift. So, I break my shift into two
every morning from 730 to 9 o’clock. I teach my class. My mom is actually one of my
student and so um as soon as I’m done II drive over III do
the exact practice. My dad I let him do the exercise. He rises on the stationary
bicycle. If you can’t, then I give him a shower and then I leave and my mom takes over, feed him, whatever. then II
come back at around 8 o’clock when they’re already sleep. I woke up, my dad gave him the last medicine and then I sleep
next to him and waking up in the middle of the night so you can go to the bathroom and then and then around 5 o’clock 530,
I leave. Okay, so we’re we’re call Givers. I as a spiritual practice, I am just maybe half
a step ahead of my mom. Okay. So, I will explain these things
to her and then she’s finally catching on. She’s actually finally catching on that. She
said, well, it really doesn’t matter to me anymore. If she, if he remembers me or not, it’s
I’m I’m I accepted. It’s it’s okay if he doesn’t remember me as his wife. It’s not, it’s not
a problem. She actually in China now, she’s someone who doesn’t even read and write in
Chinese. You know, she come from she’s 84 years old. She come from the era when women,
girls, in the Chinese societies are completely abandoned. They they don’t get education. So
she doesn’t even read and write in Chinese English. she said to me and says, I just going to
practice equanimity I said, whoa, holy **** This is like
Buddha talking to me. That’s the only way you can survive is to is to really practice what
Buddha teach about the source of suffering. Break it down
into the five hindrances. The first one is clinging. You have to understand that as a as a
care, we see uh Givers, all your pain and suffering comes from clinging. You want to
cling to something that that in the past totally did it. Second one is because of the clinging
have a version of it. Will all the negative negativity. Now,
it’s really easy to understand clinging and and aggression because if you ever visit a
Tibetan Temple, they have this thing called the wheel of life which are the six Rams human
Diva. Hell and and so forth and did you ever see that the sign
or you just look it up Google, look it up. We are live. Just focus in the middle. The middle has circle. and there’s three
different animals. One bites the tail or the other. There’s
a bird. There’s a snake, and then there’s a pig. I’m just
going to explain the bird and the snake. The bird actually
came from the bird actually is is stained. The bird came from North India. It was a pet and
the pet is they know that pet is known to um if the if the
owner die, he the pet would just stop eating and die with
the owner that that is it’s no wonder the extinct but the idea
is that Buddha uses that that animal to symbolize clinging
attachment. Buddha uses the snake to symbolize Aver.
Aversion is not an aversion is is really react negatively. So,
if you ever step on a snake, they’re not going to say, hey, wait a minute, you know, I know you don’t mean it. So, next
time I’m going to, you know, bite the bite your **** but not this. No, they’re not going to do that. They’re they’re
they’re not they’re they’re the only reaction is that they would react negatively. That’s why this thing is used for a
version understand that. Understand that that all you’re suffering as a caregiver This
is important because it turns out that statistically um anyone who who has become a
caregiver uh for family after
the job is done. they themselves will get into help. All kinds of health problems.
they with themselves because it’s such a stressful, such a stressful, and it’s not physical stress. It’s not just
physical stress, it’s emotional stress. It’s so the only way that you can provide relief for
the caregivers. Again, the topic today is how to care the,
you know, caring for the Givers, right? Is to really bring that Buddhist teaching upfront and Here’s what Buddha
says. Here’s you know, your source of suffering is the five hindrances is the attachment is
the aversion. It’s the what’s the other? theory? The other one don’t they don’t come in
quite as much but they do a little bit. Um they do and I’ll just name them and then I’ll jump in here at the uh sloth
and Tor. So that’s those are all kind of words for just of lethargy being uh you know
really tired and sleepy and the other um the fourth one is um uh worry and restlessness.
anxiousness that one can come in and then the the fifth one is a doubt. No, actually, if
you change the wording to to be more modern. Yeah. It’s it’s
actually just um depression and anxiety. Yes. That I mean that’s some people can
immediately deal with. Yeah. Sloth is more of the body and torque is more than mine. Yeah. You can be dressed in body. Oh
you’re you’re depressed all the time and a caregiver. you’re depressed all the time because initially, that you’re making,
you know, doing, doing good and then you just say it’s it’s it’s so out of control. It’s just going to get better. and
so yeah and so, you know, you know, it’s a fact. it’s a fact that most people who know
nobody can take care of uh of uh of uh of a loved one um until they die because some
point it’s all of your hand. It’s just it’s too much for you. You know, it’s too much for you. That’s right. And so
like my dad he he he he right now he is so much incontinence. It’s just that he a sensation
but by the time he gets to the bathroom, it’s already too late, you know, so, so my mom has to jump in and and clean
up, clean up and my mom said and so I told my mom, I said, look, it’s bad but it’s not
that bad because just think about what happens when dad is finally bedridden Now, at least
you can walk. We can help him into the bathtub and just shout him. That’s it And so, my mom
finally picked up and said, yeah, it’s it’s okay. It’s okay. We can do this. We can do
this. That’s right. And we’re going to, you know, it seems like in life, you know, we have
challenges but we’re really hardly ever going to be met with something that we can’t handle. I mean, it can be
really tough but we’re going to get kind of the degree that we can handle in the moment and so
yeah, unfortunately, that’s going to prepare you for what it may you know, make it worse.
So, I want to say about Denise’s thing about Buddhism that we have to uh go into Buddhism and I totally agree. I
want to point out though the distinction here being that the term Buddhism, that’s a western
term. You know, Buddhism is not really a religion in the same sense. it’s an investigation
into reality. seeing things as they actually are, right? There’s nothing to, there’s no
requirements to believe or disbelieve anything. There’s no worship or anything like another religion. It’s not that
any of those things are necessarily bad but it’s it’s kind of a terminology that was given by West Westerners uh as
a religion now. Um now Denise say about now, this is nothing
to do with your dad so much but I see this more and more of this survival programming. I
call it that. You know, if you go and look at TV and movies and and and um content and
there’s this um kind of and programmed to survive at any
cost and uh I totally get that. I mean, obviously, I mean, you’re kind of crazy if you don’t want it. If you have a
choice to live or die, you’re obviously going to take the one to live, right? But it seems like it’s been amped up to
eleven now and this really just uh Denny mentioned uh Y and it just brings to mind these
beautiful factors about these beings who are so selfless that they’re there to help at any
cost. you know and this is such something to look up to and embody if we can when we can
that you know that service and helping. it’s that important that we are, it’s more service
to others instead of service to self, right? We can all really uh immediately recognize when
someone is a service to self being right. They they will do anything at anybody’s expense
just for themselves to benefit all the service to others is we take care of ourselves so we
can help others. Um um That’s that’s one thing that brought
up. Now, he’s saying about pain and suffering. The core of what he was talking about. There’s
this, I forget what Dharma teacher said this but they said pain times resistance equals
suffering. So, the more we resist the pain, the more it turns into suffering Another
quick point is that this word that’s suffering in English, that’s a really strong word. Um
the poly is right. So it can also just be interpreted that uh translate it as stress. um
and even subtle. It can be translated as unsatisfactory as
like, oh this just really isn’t doing it. I mean, this is okay for now but then I want this now and then I get that. Well,
then, that’s not good enough. I want this and this and this and it’s just like this feeling that this really isn’t doing it
for us. A few other things um circling back around. I love how Denny and I can we can talk
in some more spirals instead of the traditional um linear thinking in here. Um so, the um
what this does, I mean, it did for me too and I kind of like deferred this to my grandmother when I was talking about that
but actually it was bringing up things in me that I really didn’t know was there like I
was not expecting myself to react and feel the way I felt
when I was experiencing uh being around her and seeing her behavior things she said that she didn’t say things she did
uh what came up with me. I was really surprising of how I viewed that and to that and are
just sometimes being just as bewildered as her about what to say or do or how to do it. Um
that was another thing and then I and then I I’m going to let Denny jump in a little bit here
but I want to give back to the Brahmas because you know, we all we all all this you know,
life is hard. Life isn’t for sissies, right? I mean, being a human being isn’t easy and so
that’s why we deserve more love not less and it’s not a selfish love. It’s a it’s a it’s a love
like the four flavors of love that are the of your heart You know, things that are actually
beautiful and uplifting and and very helpful not just for ourselves but everyone around
us even if we don’t practice it for others, even if we would just practice it for ourselves. Everyone we come in contact
with benefits from these practices. So, uh yeah, I mean
it didn’t uh jump in here but then II want to get back to the Brahmas and how important this
can be and I know some of the the talk on suffering they can be oh you’re a Buddhist.
they’re party poopers you know, um I don’t you know a lot of this stuff is really kind of subtle and you have to have AA
practice uh almost formal practice sometimes to see a lot of stuff but the one thing
that’s immediately apparent to just about everybody is the Brahmas, right? And especially
like the compassion if we even if we can’t have compassion, we can have compassion for the
fact that we don’t have compassion right now. that honesty is actually a form of
self love too. Yeah. You know, I agree with everything you said, Josh, I just wanted to come back to what you said
earlier about uh compassion fatigue and so yes kind of
draw. a circle around everything that we set so far. Um I think that I think it all
comes down to having the right skill, having skill. That’s the most important part is is that
it’s not just about having the words So you could you know,
explain it and then and then think that you understand it but it’s it’s actually having this skill and this is Yeah,
the scale is actually very, very simple. The skill comes back to just mindfulness. Okay?
Now, the problem, the problem is this, the problem is that the word, the English word,
mindfulness is used in his abuse is misused and everybody uses it for their own reason.
When when we talk about mindfulness where it’s important to make the
distinction between mindfulness as the English word and. right mindfulness as a Buddhist
concept. So, it’s very important to bring that right mindfulness. So, mindfulness is
and right. Mindfulness is and so since we’re Now, talking
about Buddhist teaching. the the most basic of the Buddhist teaching is the four noble
truth The four noble truths basically is like the twelve steps. program. You know, here,
you know, understand suffering, know what is suffering, know you know, the source of
suffering and you know, here’s the path to relieve yourself of suffering and so the path when
it gets down to the last one, the path kind of express yourself into this. A noble.
path. in that. it’s actually divided into three part and
mindfulness is just one time, one step in that and so, mindfulness just means
remember, that’s all it means. It doesn’t mean any more than that, remember? So, why is that such an important skill is that
if you have the training. so that you always remember your
mind. then you have a better chance of not degenerate,
degenerate into the five hindrances, You know, so an example that I use is this and
and only because most of my most of my students are grandmothers including my own mother and I said, now back in
the days when you were a little younger and you used to help raise your Gr and you have to
take them to school. This is typical San Francisco neighborhood connectivity. Do
you remember if you hold a hand and they will say, yeah, yeah, of course, you hold the hand.
You hold the hand when you cross the street, right? Yeah, of course. Even on the sidewalk, we hold the hand all the time. Why is this? Why is
that is so important to hold your hands? Well, they said, what if you don’t hold a hand to get run over by a car or
they would you run away and get kidnapped? That’s what happens when you don’t when you’re not
mindful of your mind, when you don’t know where your mind is, it will get kidnapped by the
hindrances, Okay? So the very first time that my dad had an
accident and it was actually outside and and so I quickly, you know, bring him to the
men’s room and he went into the and the closest store behind me. I said, no, no, don’t
close. I need to come in and help you because you know, it’s a big mess and he says, no, no, no. It’s going to smell really
bad. He said, dad, don’t worry. I smell my nose. I don’t smell it in my mind.
That’s true because just think how many people don’t even realize they’re smelling. They’re just reacting to
unpleasantness, right? I smell my nose. So it’s it’s it’s pain. It’s painful for my nose.
but since I know where my mind is, my mind is is on my body when I’m moving. It’s on my on
my hand. It’s it’s on my body. It’s on my breath. My mind
doesn’t get kidnapped by the hindrances. So, it doesn’t
degenerate into suffering. So, I’m I’m smelling the best smell
but I don’t suffer from the best smell. So, when you’re a caregivers and you don’t even
have that basic skill, then you don’t understand. You have no way of discerning the difference between physical
pain or even pain of of your your your brain, your memory versus the true pain which is
the mental pain which is beyond the body but if you do have
that skill, it’s it’s a simple skill. It’s it’s really what we do every Saturday is is you
know, as we start exercise. adjust your body, calibrate
your body, and adjust your mind, Calibrate your mind. Put your mind in the center of your
palm, raise your hand, focus on your wrist and guess what? As
you do that, you become very sensitive to your body. You become very sensitive to to
your breath and they’re like the kinetic canary in the cave. So, as soon as your your your
mental state degenerate, to know because you know your mind
is already somewhere else but your body says, hey, go, you know, something’s happening.
something is happening and so you know how to bring it back. You know how to bring it back and we, I love this metaphor of
the holding the hand and this can also come out of love too. You know, it’s like our mind is like a little child and we have
to hold its hand because we care about it and we don’t want it wandering off and and
getting in trouble when it just doesn’t know any better. It’s not the kid’s fault. I would do It just hasn’t grown up and
matured and been trained and learned yet. So, we we hold the hand until we can hold the hand
of our mind to until it gets better training and we can show it love uh as well, right?
Until they get some training like that. Yeah. Um the the other thing that uh I mentioned
pain times uh resistance equals suffering Also, this comes into the three characteristics. one of the high uh I guess a higher
teaching but it’s also when pain happens to a knee that can
also uh suffering. So, this is kind of like a strategy. So, when we look at the five
aggregates and start breaking down, what is this is this really personal? Is this pain
really about me? I don’t know II would say not II would say that it it’s it’s it’s not
happening to uh uh a permanent solid me because it’s it’s it’s
not going to be constant like that forever but we A lot of times, we automatically react
and think, oh my goodness, I’m in pain and it’s going to be like this forever. You know,
usually when we we experience pain and it’s just um it it really tricks us um a lot, you
know, um at at least it does to me like that. Yeah. So so one
one other thing that I maybe we should wrap it up now. Um one thing that I would like to
share again coming from only experience is that I wanted to finish with the brows too but
please go ahead, Denny. The thing that I like to share is that when you’re caring for
someone who’s dying, okay? Now, by the way, we are dying. You know, we’re all going to tie
something. It’s just that this one is a little bit more obvious. It’s just tying in front of you. In my case, I’m
not asking anybody else to do this but in my case, I don’t try to fix the problem. There’s
there’s no fixing death. There’s no way to avoid death.
So, my objective is not to reverse that. My objective is
not even to think that someday is going to get better. There’s no, there’s no getting better. It’s just going to get worse.
Every day is going to be worse. So, your good days are already passed The good days is behind
you. So, again, this is my objective that I’m not I’m not saying that anybody else should
be doing this but my III thought this through and so in my
It’s about slowing down the deterioration but more important to that. more
important than that is that I want my dad to die with dignity. That’s what I can do.
That’s what I can do is that I can give him a little bit more dignity. Absolutely. You know,
and and it’s so immediate for you now about that and just imagine a world where everybody
showed everybody dignity as just a basic common human courtesy and I aspire to do
that and live in a world where dignity, we should all show each other dignity and express
dignity and receive dignity too. It’s so very important. Um as far the death thing goes.
Yeah. You know, we have our ups and downs, the highs and lows but that’s one of the five things that Buddha said to
reflect on every day is that we haven’t gone beyond death. You know, death is going to happen.
Um one of the I think it was Jay Krishna that said one of the society’s greatest
illnesses is as people seeing death happen all around them and not thinking it’s going to happen to them and so this is
not to get bummed out. This is to be in alignment with the truth and so when we’re in
alignment with the truth that can actually bring happiness. We appreciate every moment we have Very precious and we can
enjoy it more when we realize how immediate and how short this life is, right? Yeah.
Well, also, uh IIII, appreciate what you said and I want to bring it back to something you
said earlier about the word Buddhism Buddhism is not. it’s just another is which is very
unfortunate that when you say Buddhism or he said, I’m not a Buddhist. I’m a I’m just a I’m that so therefore, I’m not this
one that’s that’s not Buddha was was So the people who
practice Buddhism, we use the word and Dama has different
meaning. It could mean the truth. It could mean the path It could mean the teaching.
It’s just depending on how you use it with dharma and so, if you want to use the word Dama
as in truth, It’s essentially saying that everything has to
die. because that’s quantum physics. the world consists of
material and material and it consists of, you know, mentality of physicality versus
spirituality. Einstein says that the reason why we we have
time is because we have space. You know, so the the beginning of the universe was the
beginning of space and now that you have space, you can travel, you know, and so now you have
time. The minute that you have time, then you can distinguish between material versus
mentality. So, the minute that you are, you understand that I am uh of the material world
then you have to die Yes. Unfortunately, in this realm that we’re in at this current
time, that seems to be the case. In fact, that is the case for us. So, so a Buddhist,
someone who who practiced Buddhist teaching what we want to do is to move away from the
material world into the spiritual world because the spiritual world has no time
and I would say we’re also here to master physicality too and sometimes as we practice the
spirit and matter can come together as well. So, I think that’s another interesting fact. Well, I wanted to talk
about the bravos again real quick. Um you know, the uh loving kindness is where it
starts and this I like the term unstoppable friendliness. I really like that. So, it’s just
a well wishing for others. I’ll give you my phrases real quick. May you be safe inside and out
may be happy and joyful may be healthy and strong May you live
knowing ease, and may you realize awakening and be free. Um so, I’ll just leave it there
and the compassion phrases, there’s actually some formal compassion phrases that I’ll use for myself and others and
this the first one is really important it’s just acknowledging the pain I
acknowledge your pain. The second one is I care about your pain at least to the, you know,
the ability that I’m able to right now. Yeah. May your pain release and may you Peace.
Yeah. Yeah. And also practical compassion is what can I do? How can I help? Is there anything I can do? Um now, the
the one that uh empathetic joy or uh I like to call it Vicarious joy. There’s some
phrases that I use that are kind of the more formal ones or may your happiness continue.
May your happiness increase. May your happiness never stop. So, it’s of like a rejoicing
for other people’s happiness. Um yeah when it’s that way and then equanimity is kind of like the grand uh the grandparent
love, right? The the the one where they’ve seen it all before. You know, they’ve already been through this
before. So, it’s kind of like AI care so much about you. However, you’re your own
person, you have to make your own decisions and be responsible for your own decisions. you know, so. Okay.
Yes. so so Josh, I think we should close and I wonder if I if I could close with just the
following please just kind of pick up on what you said. Let
me go back to my small army of Kent speaking grandmother again and so II talk about how I use
different examples to bring to them and so one of the way that I bring Dama to them is I asked
him, disrespect in the days that we’re actually doing face
to face uh practice and I said, how’s the sun today? And they
look out and they they they they think that I’m stupid. They think that I’m crazy and then there’s there’s no sun,
right? You must crazy. So, I said, okay. well, how was the
sun yesterday? And they said, oh, the sun was good yesterday.
The sun came out. It was a good day and then I have to say, you
know what? The sun was always there. The sunshine upon you
every day. The difference is yesterday, there were no cloud.
Today, there’s a cloud. So, today, we talk about the importance for caregivers, the
importance of providing, caring for their Givers. The concept
that we bring forth on one hand is called the four immersions.
The compassion the love and kindness, the empathy, and the equanimity. On the other hand is the five hindrances which are the clinging diversion, the
depression, the anxiety, and the doubt. Think of them as the sun and the cloud the sun
shines upon you every day of the week, every week of the year. That’s what Josh and I
focus on. That’s why you can tell that we are, you know, every day is a sunny day for us
because that’s what we focus on. We focus on practicing the compassion, the loving,
kindness, empathy, and equanimity. That’s the sun and we have learn some skills to
push aside the cloud Not always not, you know, not entirely but we’re at least we know what the
cloud is. The cloud is clinging aversion depression. anxiety, and doubt and when you are caregivers, you have to be careful because if you didn’t
have the skill, the cloud is on you every day. That’s totally
right and even when you know it’s night time, the sun is still shining. It’s nourishing
the earth and the earth is nourishing you every moment. So, even when it seems like, yeah, well, you don’t have to.
I mean, that’s just a fact, right? I mean, you can’t see it. Everything’s still living and the sun does that and so if
the whole world’s even against you, the sun is still there nourishing you every moment of
the day. Yes. Every moment of the night. indirectly. Yeah. So it’s there and nourishing us
and that’s not to deny the clouds aren’t We pretend that they’re not there. and be
Pollyanna and Denny. what’s bad? It’s just what the Buddha said. It was what you what you
frequently think and ponder upon becomes the inclination of the mind. So, the more we focus
on these beautiful states like the for measurable, the more likely our mind is going to be
nourished and fed by those things. So, Denny, it’s been such a pleasure and a joy and
it’s so cool. Thank you. So, if if I may I know what you’re doing, right? Yes, I may offer a meta chant to all our fellow
um caregivers. First in English, in May all beings be
free from animosity and negative energy. May all beings be free from suffering. May all
beings be free from physical suffering. May all beings be for joy and protected with
positive energy.
two. Thank you, Josh.
Integrating Presence 
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