In this episode of Integrating Presence recorded Oct 16, 2024 [and AI assisted description] writer and creative Luka Boenisch and I explore the nature of the self, free will, and consciousness. Through a wide-ranging conversation, we chat self-inquiry, the illusion of the self, and the philosophical challenges surrounding free will and predeterminism.
Luka shares his insights on how to engage with the world authentically, questioning the concepts that shape our beliefs and actions. He delves into the nature of creativity, explaining how it flows naturally when we tap into our true selves, and how spiritual practices can uncover deeper layers of understanding.
Topics include:
- Free Will vs. Predeterminism: Is free will an illusion? Luka suggests that while the self may appear to have free will, the essence of who we are transcends this duality.
- Consciousness and Awareness: What is the difference between attention and mindfulness? Luka provides his take on how awareness plays a crucial role in living an authentic and present life.
- Creativity and Expression: How creativity can lead to deeper fulfillment and emotional release. Luka explains the importance of letting go of the need for external validation and embracing the creative process for its own sake.
- Relationships and Solitude: The duo discusses the importance of solitude, reflection, and how relationships can be mirrors for personal growth.
Key Quotes:
- “The self is not something to be found—it’s something to be experienced in the present moment.”
- “Creativity is not about creating for others, but about exploring who you are and expressing that through whatever medium calls to you.”
- “If you focus too much on prescriptions and methods, you lose the chance to find your own way.”
Topics Covered:
- Introduction to Luka Boenisch and his background in writing and philosophy.
- Free Will vs. Predeterminism: How Luka reconciles these philosophical ideas.
- Self-Inquiry and the Illusion of Self: Insights into the practice of questioning the nature of identity.
- Creativity and Spirituality: The relationship between art, expression, and spiritual growth.
- The Role of Solitude and Relationships: Finding balance between being alone and engaging with others.
- Spiritual Practices and Personal Growth: Practical tips for self-reflection and embracing personal growth.
Resources Mentioned:
- Luka’s website with books and articles: mindfulled.com
- Substack for Luka’s new writings: https://lukaboenisch.substack.com
- (Free) coaching calls and consultations available through Luka’s website
Closing Thoughts:
Luka leaves listeners with a powerful reminder that life is a journey of discovery, and that creativity and presence are tools that help us unlock our true potential.
Audio: Relationships, Creativity, And The Search For Meaning With Luka Boenisch
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The raw unedited YouTube transcription of this podcast:
holness welcome this is Josh integrating presence today Luca bernish is with me
Luca what’s up hey hey Josh what’s up thank you for having me oh it’s my pleasure man um this is a um chance
encounter I had I was looking for do domain names and I just happened to type in um Luca’s domain name let’s just say
that and uh without doing any kind of promotion right off the bat here and I
was kind of uh uh surprised you know in the old text it says there’s like four
things you should never neglect and I forget what the fourth one is but one’s a small fire because it can grow into a
huge fire another one’s a small snake because it can be very poisonous and the third is a young Sage so I I honestly
look at Luca as kind of a young Sage but you know I’ve I’ve um I’ve studied um
Buddhism and practiced Buddhism but I don’t call myself a Buddhist it’s just it’s it’s just like
what is this and what’s the best way to go about it you know what the hell is this what is what is reality what you
know and so I’ll just ask my standard question here you know at the top you
know who’s Luca and what kind of work does he do and I I like this because I I told him before the show I want to jump
right in kind of the straight the deep end here you know starting with
self yeah yeah I mean hey who’s Luca I guess I could say yeah Luka I like
writing painting reading traveling being out of nature but um yeah what itself
I I guess I guess the real answer to this is that if you
think there is a self who you think you are is is some entity or something
specific then I would always inv you to look for that right try to find it try to pinpoint it try to try to see it or
find it in every experience where you assume it’s there so to
speak yeah discover something I love this called inquiry because no one can
tell us the answer to this right we have to see and know it we have to discover this we have to do the exploration for
ourselves and and wisdom you know that we have to I don’t know Garner the
wisdom for ourselves and uh yeah it’s great you
know I yeah so pretty much said it all without saying too much so let’s just start
though with some kind of standard stuff if you want like how did you get into all this you know tell tell people like
what you write about and I know it’s it’s um it’s it’s something you just
need to go and read his read his work really to to really know because you cover so many things and what I like
about it is it’s like down to earth you know in a way that mean that’s a kind of a cliche saying but it’s like really
plain uh everyday life but the kind of the wisdom embedded in everyday life you
know like I wouldn’t call it self-help either because that’s so cliche too but it’s
like how do we go about this you know where where are we tripping ourselves up
and I don’t know it the words kind of fail me here which is which is
interesting um yeah me too man but but yeah the the
the the writing is is great and so we you you’ve talked about things from some
self right I even reached out to you about this notion of solipsism and um and um you
know but one of the things I do want to I think I pretty much align on
everything you’re saying from the the the nature of life you know and suffering and things like this you’re
you’re fairly well versed in philosophical backgrounds and various
spiritual traditions and things from what I gather and the one thing though that kind of sent me for a loop and I I
would love if you would just talk about this a little bit is it seems like you’re into predeterminism though so you
know is is that is that right or how would you put that I would well I wouldn’t say I’m into pred determinism I
would say that I’m definitely not denying free will I just don’t think Free Will is something that we have I
think it’s something that we are it is an Essence right so the thing that is
predetermined is what appears to be right like the you you think you are is
uh doesn’t have free will because it’s actually unfair to have it right but when we but we can also we can’t or at
least I don’t feel like we need to dismiss free will completely otherwise would just go to the other end of the spectrum like say
predeterminism as the opposite to Free Will is true which you know is is a fallacy um so yeah I would say it’s like
it’s Nether and so to speak right yeah it’s it’s a good point because you know
what the problems like with predeterminism is it’s just like well who did first off the big one who
determines it right who who is determining it so that’s that’s a whole line of inquiry then it can get into
this notion of powerlessness in a sense like okay if everything’s predetermined
then it really doesn’t matter what choices I make because they’re all predetermined or I mean if if then then
do I even have choices and yeah I I I don’t you and then get kind of yeah it can or
yeah or it can lead to like nihilism like I don’t I don’t give a [ __ ] I can just go do whatever I want you know
there’s no incentive to do anything uh worthwhile or anything like this so um
you know but then the Free Will it’s just like well we see that in our in our daily lives too it’s just like if we did
have entirely Free Will I could say um why can’t I have the utmost level of
Consciousness all day long you know why can’t I just say I want this level of Consciousness now I want like that this
now you know Free Will why can’t I control my body you know why can’t I live for ever because I choose so yeah
there there’s problems with that too you know that’s right especially when it comes to already like most intimate
experiences you know thoughts or feelings like if you truly have free will you should be able to stop them for
a day or two or like have them whenever you feel like it right yeah and there’s some in
incredibly Advanced yogis that can get into like neota seapa
here right so but uh but for the rest of us you know it’s it’s I don’t
know yeah so what’s on your so besides this
because I I I think I have a little bit of a challenge penetrating into this I wanted to ask you some things outside
maybe your wheelhouse and see how you just your opinions on things like the the big hop topic today I think is AI
like where do you see you know maybe throw you curveball here and do you have any views on
this um well obviously I’m not I’m not an expert
and anything like that but I think there might be a fundamental
misunderstanding in a sense that when we say AI can become conscious because I
think there is a misunderstanding of what Consciousness is if we say AI can become
conscious and despite that I do think there’s a
there’s wonderful we can get from AI we already have them benefits I mean everyone use Che GPT
know there’s like some fun stuff there you can have some fun with it other than that I really don’t have a
I really don’t have an expectation where this will go I mean we’re all familiar with you know the r scenarios but I mean
it could go either way I guess yeah that that’s my feelings on it too so you mentioned Consciousness let’s
let’s get these big topics then so what is consciousness you know what is
awareness uh how does it differ from like attention and mindfulness I think this is um people often uh and then jump
back into self you know do you is there any no we we already did that I I I I
like just trying not to give a definition and pin it down I like the self- inquiry method so let’s just let’s
just talk about the big one here Consciousness and awareness right right well I mean I feel
like we can use Consciousness awareness interchangeably some don’t some do but if we if we want to really talk about
what’s our true nature then you might call it awareness you might call it Consciousness you can call it presence
or everything or nothing or whatever other gets your boat floating
um and attention and mindfulness
well I guess you could say that attention is simply what is what your focus is on the present what are the
focuses on the moment and mindfulness is in a way you’re just being present with
the present you’re just being present with your actual experience with your immediate experience instead of losing yourself in Concepts about it right and
I think that’s also an important point is that if we want to find or like re
recognize who we really are all we need to do is we have to look right here right now I mean the easiest part I mean
you know like the most basic Point are basically is have you noticed that everything just kind of
is and we can easily overc conceptualize everything right we can think they’re like oh okay you know I’ve heard about
Consciousness and awareness and I want to get there so I project it onto a
timeline as a future experience so I have all these expectations about it so I think it’s going to be uh an
experience is going to liberate me or an experience is going to be you know like the final grade experience and then I’ll
be satisfied but then we’ve already overshock the go yeah then there’s also chasing after
Peak experiences having these Peak experiences never being able to regain them or live up to them or surpass them
you know that’s yeah that’s another thing so what do you think the point of all this is is there is there a
point well I would say there is not but I mean I guess the point to what the
point to what the point to life yeah I would say the point to yeah to this this
living this this this notion of yeah and then we might as well just get into the classic existential things you know the
the the the one that really took me for a loop was when I I heard someone asked
the historical Buddha you know after full Awakening will I exist won’t I
exist will I exist and not exist or will I exist or will I neither exist nor not
exist and he said none of that fits the case you know that doesn’t apply yeah right right exactly exactly I
mean um you know I think that’s that’s kind of the point because you’re already trying to you already have expectations
about it you’re trying to project yourself into an experience but that’s it’s not that it’s not a specific
experience you you’re not experiencing it and yet the experiencing is it right
like the experience the immediate non-conceptual experiencing that’s happening in every moment that’s it
there’s nothing more to look for that’s why all the sages said Thea is the S right but we usually think oh Thea is
the s i I wonder what there is I want to get there and we’re already we’re already on a timeline towards um yeah a
conceptual experience and uh regards of what’s the point well you know of course we can say
there is no meaning to life outside the meaning we make out that meaning we create in the mind
um but you know another another classic answer might be you know the meaning is
just being alive and perhaps enjoying it even because what what better way might you want to spend your time here in your
life than enjoying it and I think that’s also the reason why most people get into this whole like Spiritual Awakening
stuff because they feel like it promises a life where they can finally relax and enjoy and stop chasing up
things so are you advocating Hedonism Luca
I would say control pism no I mean you know like
that’s uh I think you know I think there is everyone usually knows like deep down
you know what’s right for you you know what’s correct for you to do everyone knows hey I it’s not right for me to
endlessly indulge in drugs and food and entertainment all day long and do nothing else right you know what that’s
that is a classic question and I thought you know early on on yeah that seems obvious but you know even for my own
behavior in the past and some other people I think some people have a better understanding of that than others you
know what I mean and then some people love to test the limits they love to push the limits on that and for better
worse or otherwise and so I mean this gets in a a thing of Ethics you know
like like uh how to me it’s real simple non-harming you know of course there’s
maybe a lot of great areas but I I do think a lot of us we can start there is we know when we’re harmed and when we’re
not right we then then we apply that to to others so does how do you feel about
like a like an ethical framework or just either based on that or anything else you
know well I would almost say the same to what I said earlier like I mean of course we could say there’s psychopath
and sociopaths and all that kind of stuff but I think you know every most of it is the result of conditioning of
growing up but deep down I already know like that it’s right not to hurt others I don’t need like an I don’t need to
study ethics or what’s right or what’s wrong I feel I know what’s right or wrong before I think about it before I
conceptualize yeah it’s just you’re right so this comes up with um this the
psychological Gunk that gets layered on top that obscures this so it seems a lot
of the the paths are discarding things that get in the way of this innate knowing this innate brightness this
innate awareness and uh there’s confusion and then there’s there’s trauma and then uh we we I don’t know I
can’t speak for anybody else but sometimes we’ll justify actions or come up with um ration um rationality um to
of why the things we do are okay when when maybe we know they’re not or we’re
unwilling to examine them further and um you know contemplate the implications
and so where am I going with this um that’s right yeah so that that’s uh I
guess what what I’m asking you maybe do you have any um advice instructions what do you think
about discarding things you know getting rid of things so this might go into spiritual practices like like your work
to me it exemplifies so brilliantly how how natural and easy and commonplace you
know um a lot of the things in in the spiritual for lack of a better uh word
are you know and reminds me of aan CHA I I don’t know if you’re familiar with his teachings but he was just it was a
common dirt farmer and he just could connect with people he kind of knew like
uh he had skillful means he just could kind of he he kind of really see into
people’s nature but then connect with them on a very uh earthy simple way but
it was very super profound you know so like what do you for people that just
have tons and tongues of Gunk or even you know huge spiritual egos or you know
like the spiritual ego I’m trying to uh in integrate or do something with and
you know um just all the things that obscure and get in the way yeah yeah
well first I want to address what you just said earlier because I think it’s a good point that that spirituality is not
is it’s for everyone right what we’re talking about here is for everyone it’s not for a few gen spiritual Geniuses or
the followers of a guru or a teaching it’s like the most pragmatic thing there is it’s just all immate experience so
it’s for everyone and um well for everyone who has a lot of Gunk as you
said I would say um a first important step is or at least um you know a
helpful step is first to accept yourself as you are I think so we spend so much time and energy trying to constantly
improve who we believe we are and it doesn’t get us anywhere I know I’ve tried for a long time and in the end I
felt more tense than I was before because I always felt like I’m I’m chasing some idea of perfect human being
of perfection of being a specific way uh so that’s a you know like accept
yourself see that there’s essentially nothing wrong with you and then the next step is question question yourself
assumptions question your beliefs look into your condition that’s and that you
can do that in any way you like and I’m not saying it’s just a mental exercise as you said with meditation it’s like a
it can be a full body exercise and usually it is you feel when tensions leave the body you feel when something
and something’s being released um and for that self-honesty is really important as you as you said like when
we talked about um you know people justifying their behavior a lot of it is because we see ourselves as these good
people we want to be good people and then there’s this cognitive or perhaps even spiritual dissonance is like oh I
believe I’m a good person but what I did is not good so then I’m trying to like kind of fatch this belief instead of
really looking at it like are you really a good person or is it even necessary to see yourself as a good person
right yeah this this it’s a really good point you know on the higher and higher levels that it’s just it doesn’t really
apply but but on an everyday thing you know um even just this notion of good
and bad can be problematic I mean it could I think it’s helpful for some people but that’s why I like this notion
of skillfulness right and wisdom yeah so instead of putting this value judgment oh this person’s good this person’s bad
which one person might think is good another person that’s not too good or oh your goody two shoes you know all this
type of stuff so but pretty much everybody can connect with I think degrees of skillfulness and with
right there is there is this is not to deny evil because you know um this
problem of evil it’s such a loaded word too uh however there are things in the
world that are just maliciously harmful but again how much time and effort do we
want to spend you know really putting on our superhero cape and and go fighting
this you know and then even if we look at all the ill in the world is it really
going to be helpful when when some of these people I mentioned psychopath are
are are people find out about them and they’re kind of the shenanigans they do you know is it going to be helpful to be
a vigilante or seek you know retribution I don’t think that’s helpful
either um so like that’s this is why it comes back down to skillfulness and
wisdom and also the heart qualities you know because with with too much wisdom
we get cold and like snake like so you know this this notion of these skillful
heart qualities of compassion kindness you know rejoicing and uh yeah um
equinity even that there’s only so much we can do we can’t make other people’s choices for them and live their lives so
this notion of um you know I asked earlier about what what’s the point of all this and I I think I’m in line with
the the historical Buddhist on this one it’s just no suffering and the end of suffering you know which equates on the
positive side to contentment yeah being content in life because all the other
stuff really doesn’t mean [ __ ] you know if if we feel like complete and utter
ass all day long you know or things are real bad things are stressful even
unsatisfactoriness you know um it just it’s just not as fulfilling and can uh
in all the other things that we might be interested in or worthwhile in life if if that if there’s just too much stress
there then all that other stuff really doesn’t even matter anyway but what I would say about uh
earlier than you about Good and Evil I think there’s like a I think it’s a Zen saying it’s like there is no right there
is no good and there is no bad but good is good and bad is bad wow
yeah just let that sink in for a little bit go ahead yeah and and what you said
right now what you know about the contentment and happiness and yeah
suffering I think what’s important to see is also we always have these and that’s also that’s also the result of
conditioning that we believe we need all of these things to be content and happy like I need this house and I need this
partner and I need this car and I need all of these things I need the success and everything to be happy and content
and the truth is you don’t and if you truly want to be happy then you you can
make a choice do you want to be happy with this thing or do you just want to be happy and if you’re honest with
yourself you know you can be happy without it but some part inside you really wants to be happy with this thing
so in a way there’s like a choice there right there totally is and you know I
saw this early on when I was still working like in semi corporate even though it was a really cool LAX uh
creative people had a lot of fun and stuff but I had no interest in you know climbing the ladder and and and getting
all this stuff that I saw other people just in a state of misery basically yearning taking their happiness like a
bone you know and throwing it into the future and chasing after it you know uh it’s yeah that’s that’s a funny analogy
yeah right what it is yeah it’s it’s it’s right here and right now and the
conditioning enough can’t be said about that because a lot of I think a lot of her behavior is from her upbringing and
tons and tons of conditioning yeah causes and conditions for pretty much everything yeah that’s right so what’s
on your radar now like um what are you looking any what do you well yeah what
are you reading or like what kind of not maybe not specifically but like any
areas of topics you have going on anything that interests you um and and
as far as your writing goes how do you how do you get inspiration you know is it things that happen in your everyday
life do things just occur to you um you know do you see things in the greater
world that need addressing um and we can just talk about creativity to in general if you’d like
yeah yeah sure um well I guess uh when it comes to inspiration it’s a bit it’s
a bit of everything you mentioned right sometimes things just occur to me I have an insight and then I build on it
sometimes I read something find it really interesting so I chew on it and digest it and then see maybe if there’s
another angle or maybe something I could contribute or something like that recent or recently or for a while
I’ve been mostly reading or reading a lot of just literature and really into American literature and um I’m I’m
constantly surprised because often you know it’s the deepest insights you get
from books sometimes not from like spiritual literature uh just like novels and really well
written really really well written stories so I think there’s a lot in there and you know if you had you I
don’t know if you’ve noticed that but the moment you became interested in all this Awakening stuff it feels almost
like your whole environment everything is trying to help you you know you like hear a song and it’s about this you hear
it everywhere you read it everywhere everything’s like a key a hint a pointer and if you’re open to that then it’s
everywhere right and uh in terms of creativity you know
like like um Tong firmly held and cheek I would say for me that’s like if there
was a meaning in life then it would be to be creative you know create something we’re here and we can obviously do something we can create something so
just create something and it doesn’t need to be writing or painting should be anything right you can be creative in
all kinds of way and um as far as I’m concerned or aware I feel like everyone
has a desire to create something to be creative and I wouldn’t even say that
there’s sure some people might be more in touch with their creative Vein from the GetGo or there might be like in in
their childhoods there might have been you know the parents might have supported them in whatever they wanted to do so they feel like they’re more
creative but I think we’re all creative like Creative Energy is not something you’re it just flows it’s not something
you have inherently more than any other person it’s more it’s more a kind of thing of tapping into it and I found
that if you actually just do something you I don’t know sometimes I just sit down and write randomly like just stream
of Consciousness or I paint something and I don’t know what to do and I just go and go and go and something happens
and sometimes in the most ugly pieces of art there is a really a Hidden Gem something that you know like a unique
style almost you can yeah it’s it’s creativity is um such
an amazing thing um there was part of my practice where it just it it it just started rolling out and I would just
keep a sketch pad and just just almost it was almost not a compulsion but it
was just like overflowing and I just wanted to do it I think a lot of people might get turned off because they’re
trying to judge their what they create up to something else you know you could
do it just for you as an outlet or an experiment and not have to show anyone whatsoever you know or even when I did
show uh stuff later on to a few people you know it’s it’s interesting it’s
another creative process to to to talk about it and explain it you know and if
you reveal the intent behind it or process so that’s a whole another thing
of a creativity and you know today some of my creativity is just you know this
natural uh old-fashioned mhood of problem solving right you can be
creative in our problem solving now yeah we can’t solve uh a lot of problem solving actually can kind of create
problems but in those times in our lives when we when when it does make sense to solve problems um you know we can be creative
even in that uh with with our speaking our expression our our communication even um I so yeah creativity doesn’t
have to be even limited to traditional means and modes but and it’s such a beautiful expression um uh the emotional
expression and it’s so healthy I feel um to take some emotions that we have in in
Express them or or integrate it with emotions or use an emotional aspect behind uh creation I think it’s really
healthy for a lot of that um yeah absolutely absolutely I also think you know a lot of people that maybe feel
like a lack of fulfillment I would tell them create something create something
and then see how you feel and it’s not even and then you notice it’s not even about sharing it with people specifically but like the creative act
is something has a specific flavor and it is inherently fulfilling just the
Crea thing but uh but I also agree that um I I for example I saw this a lot with
painting especially that there’s kind of multiple stages to what creativity can be and like the the catharsis can unfold
in every stage of the creation process like for example why are you creating
like if I’m if I’m painting something why have I chosen what I paint and then of course it’s in the process of
creating often often I realize how there’s like things that’s stuff that’s being released like
thoughts that come just come up and go while I’m creating and then of course when you’re done with your creation then
you can look at it and then you can reflect on it think oh okay and then afterwards you might understand why you
did what you did what it this was why you did this candid in the first
place and then you can look back across your ey and see that it all reflects
kind of a specific state of your life or a state of being we were in yeah I think
it’s really fun yeah that’s that’s beautiful to remember because there’s sometimes we go
into the creational process with the very specific intent right and then to bring that intent to light but sometimes
it’s the other way around you just start doing something and then it’s almost like DreamWork and interpretation later
it’s like oh I can see you know this makes sense this is why did I draw this
or okay this what’s going on in my life or I can see how this matches up in
either free associating doing interpretation or maybe it might spawn
another idea you know in another process do you the other way around though do
you ever like destroy some of your Creations you know or like what is the
destruction process or you know how is that does that is is it just as important as creativity or how do you
find this this either ejection process or you know uh another classic one is
how do you know when you’re done right how do you know when you’re done with a project but
yes well in terms of Destruction I can say like I have overpainted so many
canvases for example multiple times and be like oh okay now now I no longer like
this and I kind of feel like this needs to be something new or it can also be accelerating to destroy something right
you create it like for example you might you might be into poetry and you write a poem and instead of sharing it with the
world you just rip it apart and you know scatter all the pieces that can be a
really almost like uh an exercise in letting go an exercise in in
nonattachment in a way and yeah the thing with when do you know
when you’re done I think every everyone goes TR in this
feeling I think it it varies sometimes I have a really clear sense of okay I’m
done now other times I just you know might let a pece sit for a while and
that’s true for writing and for painting for example for me personally and then after a while I came back and do
something more or a few weeks I come or few weeks later I come back and look at it like it’s been done all
along it’s been done all long it really does depend and and what this speaks to me it’s this notion of a sense of kind
of power right that just kind of but also with the intuition because there is no textbook for things like this right
it’s just kind of like this kind of self-trust self- knowing decision-making
process in a way right uh in a way that’s not just the standard old worldly
way of making decisions and following things out and the the power to create the power to destroy or redo right and
so yeah it’s it’s um it’s some of the most inspiring things in the world are
are things that people have created right um most meaningful things some people derive so much meaning and
pleasure from from creation too um some people get in a lot of trouble you know
we we uh uh either you know can’t come up with the next creation or feeling
they need to get in a a an extreme state to be creative you know things like this
so it it is a really fascinating area of our being yeah yeah that’s true that’s
true and I think I I like what you said earlier there’s no textbook for this because in a lot of ways you can you can
almost like how do you say you can almost slow yourself down by by reaching towards too
many prescriptions you know the mind is kind of like always reaching towards prescriptions and it’s true for creativity as it is true for like
spiritual practices and matters because I mean it’s for some things you know like
how to turn on your computer well of course you can have a prescriptive advice is like press the button right
but when it comes to things that are like multifaceted and complex and they all depend on kind of your own
individual context and experience and environment there’s no prescriptive advice you can tell and I think if you
can really like hold off on always reaching towards a new prescription on
how to and five steps and all that kind of stuff then there is there is the
possibility that something naturally emerges you find your own way which is kind of what most people wonder in
right yeah it’s it’s a really good point and I get reminded of this sometimes too when I I fall too much into established
spiritual teachings right and we just look at the Historical Buddha he had to leave all his teachers ironically
because they weren’t doing it for him you know so completely self-awakened
right and uh yeah it we can use it as I think what it what prescriptions can
sometimes do is they provide inspiration and uh motivation perhaps in a certain
way but maybe the end result but it’s it’s it’s maybe it’s it’s part of our experimental process to try some of
these but like do you really think somebody can give you the prescription for the next Mona Lisa you know or
famous work I mean maybe you can get in the ballpark but are we just copying you
know or like how yeah it speaks to like originality too I guess yeah when maybe
it comes to expression but yeah I would to in the spiritual SPH also yeah no I just wanted you to say um and also you
know like most people who give you prescriptive advice they give you the
part and pieces they think were were contributing the most they think were
the most important bits so for example if you look at the Historical Buddha and you look at his life and you think okay
he he wasn’t athetic he did this he did that so I’m just just going to do all these things because I think that’s what
led him to his Awakening but I think the Buddha would have been the first one to tell you hey no that’s not it you can’t
try to find a cause and effect relationship here right like you you can
or like I don’t know if someone if someone for example creates a super successful business they might tell you
okay like you have to wake up early and you have to study this and do copyright and all these kind of things but then
what in the end really led him to that successful business it’s not just a com
of these few steps he has Cherry Picked so to speak yeah it’s a good point and I often
I’ve pondered this to for for one one thing or a few things so he was
supposedly grew up in a palace right and had all this sensual pleasure and then he went to the other EXT well then he
did the Deep concentration practices right and left those twoo I mean
integrated them but that wouldn’t take them all the way when everybody at the time said that’s it you know uh a Janna
you know neither perception or non-perception that’s it they can’t go any higher he said well when I come out of that can’t do anything else I mean
it’s still back to where I was or whatever that’s the story goes but then you go all the way to the other extremist aestheticism right extreme
kind of deprivation and and and he said that’s not that’s not necessary either
the thing is though like uh he did all these things right he he did all these
you know and he’s telling people not to do them and I don’t you know I’m not saying go out there and indulge all the
and then do extreme things to find out for yourself maybe he does we could learn a lot from what he says but
there’s also the thing the handful of leaves you know he took a handful of leaves in the forest and said okay
what’s more abundant you know the hand the leaves in my hand are in the forest and of course you know the leaves in the
forest are more abundant than his hands he said the same way even though my knowledge is the the leaves in the
forest but I teach only this suffering in the end of suffering but the the question Still Remains how did he get to
know all those leaves you know and we can we can speculate on why he only
taught suffering the end of suffering but it remains unseen all the other vast
wisdom supposedly had and why he didn’t teach it you know um and and I I’ve got pretty good answers to that but the
matter of the fact is that no one else can do this for us right we can have friends I think and that I want I want
to ask you about friends and relationships next but we can have teachers as as helpful feedback and
guides but they can’t do all this stuff for us they can’t view the world for us they can’t respond to the world for us
It ultimately relies on how we do that you know um and yeah so that’s that’s of
the utmost importance and yeah the Buddha ENC encouraged that too he said you know here’s some things I figured out you have to see and know this for
yourself if it’s helpful it’s helpful if it’s not it’s not you know I can’t do it for you yeah yeah I think it’s easy to
uh to put other people like that on the pest still you know you put it above you
you think like you they are somewhere where you not and you constantly keep yourself above them well in reality
you’re your own authority and all you need to do is check in your own experience yeah you have to that’s yeah
there’s no other really way that’s part of it abolutely exactly and um it’s easy to get lost in
you know like teachings and this one did this and this one did that but the truth is everyone finds their own way and
there is no right or wrong way if we’d say there is only one right way I think that would be a fallacy of objective
knowledge where we would say oh there is the right way and it’s just waiting out there for us to see it but that’s not
the case you know well at least um there are many
skillful means out there for sure you know to limit oneself to only one thing
I mean that’s kind of Dogma right we have to we have to explore and see and know this for ourselves and some of the
brilliant things are things that we come up with on our own and that we share with others that can that can help
others because if we were just paring everything all the time and falling in
line with everybody else I mean how boring of a world that would be how gray
hiem mind authoritarian you know liming like uh reality would that be it would
it would be it wouldn’t be helpful so totally agree with that yeah so now relationships you know uh I want to ask
uh what would you say about relationships just in in general I have no idea where to point you in this maybe
just how important they are uh some dos and don’ts I don’t know why I’m asking you for to to to comment on this but in
my experience everything is relationship right even um but we have to ourselves
you know and externally too yeah yeah I mean absolutely I think like even you
could say that all spirituality is just about relationship you know in the end it’s all just about relationship and uh
yeah relationships are beautiful I mean I think one of the most valuable things a human can do like if they really want
to see how much it can grow like live with another person you know live with another person for a while and then see
how you do I think that will teach you a lot about yourself and
um so yeah I think in um relationships say they’re a
good they’re a good gge for uh what you
might be rejecting in yourself what you might not be accepting in yourself what you might still be judging in yourself
where you they can show you like blind spots in yourself and beyond that of
course relationships are a source of great pleasure and joy but I would also say that you know I think there’s like a
little bit conditioning in in society where it says like if you if you’re not constantly out and about and wanting to
meet people and make new friends and something’s wrong with you people will ask you are you depressed are you okay
but but because I noticed that myself like I you know I had long times where I would just want to permit for myself and
not me people and I was completely satisfied and happy with that but from the outside people would often think hey
something’s not right but I think it’s important that you listen to yourself and if you don’t have a strong deserve
to go out and socializing that’s okay if you do want to socialize awesome do it
and you know if it varies also great like I don’t think there is you know specific rules with how and when and how
much we should engage with each other but kind of allowing our relationships to
be like an authentic reflection of how we feel about it how we want to go about our
lives that’s beautiful too and that takes so much pressure off because I know those times when I was going
through rough patch rough patches and more introverted and people throw around
the term introverted like it’s some kind of um condition or something you know like like it’s it’s
like he’s intro yeah I mean it’s like what uh and so the introvert it recharges on their
own you know and what I found uh become more Mesi overt or Ambi overt so these
times when I just really enjoy Solitude and and being in my own energy and my own surroundings and peace and even we
have words like um you know isolation or you know uh um yeah but there’s there’s
something about Solitude you know just the the difference in the word right Solitude versus isolation or this um
this Reen renouncing there’s certain things in the world I find are helpful to renounce you know that have a
renunciate on on certain things other things to engage in you know if it’s if it’s going to lead to my long-term
welfare and happiness will then yeah enter and abide in it but if it’s if it’s not then it it makes time to
withdraw from it yeah I couldn’t agree more and this notion you say of uh letting it be an expression or try not
trying to be inauthentic with it like if you don’t you know if you don’t feel it’s going to be good for you and it’s
it’s uh now I I get it when some people they can be challenged you know by not
ever wanting to leave their comfort zones but that’s not what we’re talking about here right so yeah I think I think
a good keyword is try you know if you try too much you usually get away from
you really are or who you really are what feels right to you and also with
the renunciation I think renunciation often has this kind of like go away kind
of feeling but it can be a very you know a very Like Loving like hey okay I see this is not not serving me right now
like thank you but no thank you in a way and
um something else I wanted to say yeah the the
the yeah that’s uh it really I I think that’s yeah it gets a bad WAP sometimes
but we did see like a really interesting reversal during the lockdowns of going
from you know people that always stayed Alone by themselves to look really weird to the exact opposite where you know now
if you wanting to go out and be around people well you were the dangerous one the weird one you know and uh what what
people thought about hypochondria hypochondriac beforehand and now
everybody’s like putting stuff on their hands and being very scared of germs and
things I I don’t know I just thought it was interesting uh if some aliens would have landed during that time period and
saw everybody doing what they do I wonder if they thought we were um you know H bunch of hypochondriacs or
something without the context of what was going on but yeah but anyway yeah but I mean like I think you know the the
positive is because I think Solitude is is B beneficial to everyone at least something I understand that some people
don’t desire Solitude as much as others and I would never say like hey there’s
this one thing and works for everyone all the time but if you don’t have at
least some time where you reduce the noise and just get away from everything that’s been constantly poured into you
all the information on all the opinions others then you’ll have trouble to see what’s really with you what is really
there with you yeah it’s absolutely necessary you know most people are kind of it seems
like they’re a amalgamation of you know the ones they’ve been around and uh e
even once they’ve they’ve looked at their conditioning and deprogrammed a lot of things and unlearned a lot of
things then we’re still kind of reflections of those that we spend the most time with but if people haven’t
even done that and and looked at uh and been with themselves and turned out
turned off all the external inputs you know it’s kind of ironic to say on a podcast right but
uh but it really is to to power off and and shut down because yeah You’ really
be surpris I mean some people get really freaked out when they sit in silence and see just how absolutely out of control
their their mind and heart is you know yeah hey um so with
the with with the literature though you know in my 20s I was really into
postmodern American stuff and I think we can start transitioning here to to wrapping up have you what kind and and
we could do name dropping uh now so if you want like I
was reading David Foster Wallace yeah yeah I was just about to say if you would have asked me what I
like I would have said that one yeah that’s that’s said that one yeah I spent wow that was well I
DKI uh Crime and Punishment I mean that was such a hugely uh intensely
psychological uh novel and then uh the infinite J that guy too I mean just the
Brilliance of him uh like I just sit there with a dictionary sometimes on one
page and have to look up the you know and look up all these words and he had this goal of learning all these words a
day you know he’s just really profound writer and but then on the other hand
some of the postmodern stuff I feel like it’s almost like
intellectual wank y sometimes you know it’s such a brilliant expression of uh
something new newish that’s possible and goes to such extreme depths of uh
creativity and stuff like that but at the end of the day I I wonder about and gravity’s rainbow I spent a lot of time
reading that one too and actually on my reading list is it you have to go in and
see the um someone did an illustration for every single page of that novel so
so look look that one up too somebody spent a lot of time doing that uh sometimes it’s just a quick drawing or
whatever sometimes it’s more elaborate but I’m pretty sure they’re still uh available online but I can’t even
imagine ill like it’s hard enough just for me to get through every single page but it’s it’s a joy in a way but it
challenged it it challenged me to read the these novels and and it it it was a source of um expansion and pleasure but
also mean David Foster Wallace seemed like he was really
really in the depths of something uh I don’t know I don’t know how to I don’t know how to put it
because my words don’t do it justice but yeah it was it was quite a journey to to go through that book that’s right that’s
right yeah I think um especially what he does is so is so different to what I’ve
seen before with like sentences stretching across pages and pages and then you have these like then you have
these long ass footnotes footnotes have the Kindle version so I don’t need
I can just if I don’t know a word I just tap on it or like I can open the footnote immediately which was uh which
was quite handy um and yeah like like the amount of characters and every character is
super interesting and has their own story it’s really it’s really crazy it’s really
something but I also like and I think this K with writing
myself is like at some point it’s not just about what you say how you say it
like the the sentences you sentences you build and like the Rhythm to it and some
things I I wouldn’t have noticed before like suddenly there’s like really I like I I know this feels right to this
sentence feels right you know it doesn’t matter what it says it just feels right and I think that’s really what at least
for me then what’s makes good writing where I feel like it just it just it doesn’t miss the beat so to speak it’s
like you know it’s like yeah it’s like music and how how it lands with you is definitely going a it’s going to be how
it more than like we will land with your audience you know it seems that way and it’s it’s interesting your style is a
little bit um concise but in such a brilliant kind of Punchy way and then it
will kind of throw some some Curves in there that I like to and uh the the
images you bring about to uh I I I really find helpful and uh you’re do you
do the little illustrations too the stick figure illustrations that’s so cool that’s very cool style yeah all
right cool well why don’t you tell folks uh how they can where they can reach you
and uh kind of what you have in the works what you have coming up and anything else you want to plug and then
take people out and what you want to leave them with yeah I mean uh you can find me on my website
it’s mind.com which is like mindful but with an additional LED at the end and
you know there you can find all my writing some of my art you can contact me there I do coaching as well there and
like free calls as well if you want to talk with me um have two books you can
buy there I also started writing on sub recently so anyone who’s
interested I have nothing like specific in the works or something I’ve been you
know been maybe thinking about writing a little bit more fiction actually I’ve been writing a little bit more fiction
but I feel like it’s a it’s a whole different like Beast than nonfiction and
yeah what else I think I think that’s pretty much it if anyone wants to talk they can just shoot me an email they can
reach out to me cool all right may all beings
everywhere find their uh most optimal ideal creativity and uh best way of
being in this world thanks for joining me again thank you welcome
Integrating Presence 